raising the same amount

tcummo · Mar 23, 2011

hi all,
some articles/people advise you
"if you are going to raise,
always raise the same amount".
others say vary your raises.
anyone have any thoughts on this ?
gl on and off the tables.

Shufflin · Mar 23, 2011

I think it is much easier to find an amount that ur comfortable with and stick with it. Varying seems very complicated (eg -- is the call because of cards or because suspicious of your weird raise)

I like 3XBB myself -- cheap enough to raise PPs, but not giving odds to call with garbage. I also stick with it thru antes -- gearing down to 2.5 just seems to open up opportunities to gamblers. I am sure many will disagree with me on this....

TheDevilsLuck · Mar 24, 2011

My standard is 3.5x + 1bb per limper. Maybe 4x sometimes. I'll bet as much as they are willing to call, if I think it is right.

TheKAAHK · Mar 24, 2011

I usually go with the 3x +1BB per limper in MTT ans most SNG, and 4-5x +1 per limpet in FR.

No real reason, that's just what I am comfortable with and have grown accustomed to over the years.

TheGenera1 · Mar 24, 2011

I usually vary my amount. Any hand that isn't paired or small PP ill raise 3 times the BB (Except AK) And any hand Queens and above Ill raise to 4 times the BB and just call a re raise with QQ and Re raise again with KK or AA. Ill shove with AA to a re re raise. lol But will just call with Kings.

Hope some of that makes sense.

TylerN · Mar 24, 2011

TheGenera1 said:
I usually vary my amount. Any hand that isn't paired or small PP ill raise 3 times the BB (Except AK) And any hand Queens and above Ill raise to 4 times the BB and just call a re raise with QQ and Re raise again with KK or AA. Ill shove with AA to a re re raise. lol But will just call with Kings.

Hope some of that makes sense.

you don't want to be adjusting your bet sizing by your range. Really big leak

the only time i adjust my sizing is when attempting to steal. Besides that it stays the same

TheGenera1 · Mar 24, 2011

I agree. The problem is, I could name so many times where my aces have been sucked out on. The majority of the time people fold to my raises when I have aces, but the times that I have raised it only 3 times the bb to try and disguise my hand I have had callers who flop the nuts straight and what not. It gets really annoying. Raising to 5 times the bb stops the majority of King Queens and Jack 10/ Ace 10's calling. Some idiots will still call and flop the nuts but it's a lot lower with the 5 bb raise. I will however admit that this is bad play.

What I should be trying to do is work out if my Aces are still good pre flop. It is just really hard folding aces post flop when uve been dealt absolute shit for the last 1k hands and the hands you do get that are good, people have folded haha.

Major leak and major bad play. It's something im working on.

TylerN · Mar 24, 2011

TheGenera1 said:
I agree. The problem is, I could name so many times where my aces have been sucked out on.don't be result orientated The majority of the time people fold to my raises when I have aces, but the times that I have raised it only 3 times the bb to try and disguise my hand I have had callers who flop the nuts straight and what not. It gets really annoying. Raising to 5 times the bb stops the majority of King Queens and Jack 10/ Ace 10's callingyou want these hands calling you. You make your majority of your money off the fish. Some idiots will still call and flop the nuts but it's a lot lower with the 5 bb raise. I will however admit that this is bad play.

What I should be trying to do is work out if my Aces are still good pre flopaces are always good preflop or did i misread this?. It is just really hard folding aces post flop when uve been dealt absolute shit for the last 1k hands and the hands you do get that are good, people have folded haha.

Major leak and major bad play. It's something im working on.

responses in bold

Worak · Mar 24, 2011

tcummo said:
hi all,
some articles/people advise you
"if you are going to raise,
always raise the same amount".
others say vary your raises.
anyone have any thoughts on this ?
gl on and off the tables.

Both opinions on this have their merit.

On the one hand raising the same amount will make reading your range harder wheras varying betsizes will make your opponenents wonder what the hell you're up to with your 666 or 425 bet now.

In essence mixing both concepts might be the most effevtive.

Let's say I make my late position (hj,co,ntn) bets between 2.1 BB and 3.99 BB (all deep stacked) depending on opponents left behind to act.

The smaller bets will mostly keep the pot and my possible c-bet smaller and the bigger will either build a large pot vs blinds who are calling too much

or put more pressure on medium stacks acting behind.

There's no general rule though, it all depends on many situational circumstances.

takethepain · Mar 24, 2011

I will almost always raise 3xbb +1bb per limper unless there are exceptional circumstances (for example on the button with the BB only have 5bb i may as well put him all in).

I will however vary my 3 bet size based on stack sizes and the style of player I'm up against.

pricecube · Mar 24, 2011

I raise 3xBB until the antes kick in in a MTT. After that I lower to 2.5xBB or maybe even slightly less than that. I feel like so many pros do this so why not emulate them? I remember watching a video of Chris Ferguson saying he raises 2.5xBB from early position, 3xBB from middle and 3.5xBB from late - I tried doing that but soon fell into 3xBB from anywhere.

essambb · Mar 24, 2011

you should raise the same amount to confuce the others players but you should over bet every now and then

BigJamo · Mar 24, 2011

The main reason that they will say to keep your bets the same, is that it make it hard for your opponents to know what sort of range you have.

Stu_Ungar · Mar 24, 2011

Tyler69 said:
you don't want to be adjusting your bet sizing by your range. Really big leak

the only time i adjust my sizing is when attempting to steal. Besides that it stays the same

Actually you should be adjusting your bet size by your range.

In EP your range is stranger than in MP or LP, so your EP raises should be larger than your MP or LP raises.

The reason you are adjusting your steal raise size is partly to do with the fact that your stealing range represents a weak range and thus your steal size is smaller than your MP or EP raise size because it is reflective of the reduced strength compared to those ranges.

pokerman27 · Mar 24, 2011

Stu_Ungar said:
Actually you should be adjusting your bet size by your range.

In EP your range is stranger than in MP or LP, so your EP raises should be larger than your MP or LP raises.

The reason you are adjusting your steal raise size is partly to do with the fact that your stealing range represents a weak range and thus your steal size is smaller than your MP or EP raise size because it is reflective of the reduced strength compared to those ranges.

This.

Your EP range should be a lot stronger therefore a larger raise is a good idea as you're looking to build a pot with your strong hands. Conversely, when stealing against nits (who you want on your left) making it 2.5x is perfectly acceptable as they won't be looking at your raise size just their hand. Then when t hey do 3 bet you and you fold you save 0.5bb - not a lot but a saving overtime.

ilovepoker5000 · Mar 24, 2011

I saw many tutorials on that topic, but i raise based on moment and player in the hand. I know sometimes i win, sometimes i lose more because of it but on the end you make your own tactic about raise and stick with it.

Stu_Ungar · Mar 24, 2011

ilovepoker5000 said:
I saw many tutorials on that topic, but i raise based on moment and player in the hand. I know sometimes i win, sometimes i lose more because of it but on the end you make your own tactic about raise and stick with it.

When making an opening raise there are no other players in the hand.

fugitive67 · Mar 24, 2011

tourney i'm almost always 3X BB rounded up, if im too lazy to type in exactly 3X

near the cash i've been known to raise 2X as just a way to say, hey i got something, we're all near the cash ... do you really wanna some of this? ... naturally though i will steal with that same 2X during bubble play

now cash (6 max) if im on the button or in the cut off i'll do 3X vs. just the blinds ... in other positions and/or with one or two limpers i will go 4X or even 5X with 3 limpers

i guess what u want to do is always bet enough so that a steal is possible ... u dont want to overbet in case somebody wakes up with a big hand and comes over the top and

you dont want to do something like 2X with pockets aces, 3X with pocket Ks or Qs, 5x with mid/small pair, 4X with any two ... you get the picture ... something a shrewd player could read into

tcummo · Mar 24, 2011

what about 3bet sizes
any general tips ?

PurgatoryD · Mar 24, 2011

Great discussion, everyone. I especially like the comments regarding raises in EP vs LP. I was also very glad to read this:

pricecube said:
until the antes kick in in a MTT. After that I lower to 2.5xBB or maybe even slightly less than that.

I play MTT and I was beginning to think... where are they finding such deep stacked games?! LOL! At 4BB + 1BB per limper, I might get to play a couple of hands and that's about it. A lot of those tourney's have you hovering around 20BB. That's very different than having 100BB to play with!

ruth99 · Apr 12, 2011

I have never known how much to raise according to poker edicet...3 x bb sounds good to me

raising the same amount

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