"Running it twice"

akaRobbo · May 5, 2014

How many people do it? Ive started doing it.

I have it marked "Always" on PokerStars, but sometimes it will only run it once? Why is this?

BluffMeAllIn · May 5, 2014

I don't do it online, will often think about it live if its offered up either if I'm ahead or behind however at least in a live situation you have the option of yes or no when you want as opposed to always or never and many times its more beneficial to run it 3 times as opposed to 2 times in a 65/35 spot for example so that losing the 1st run means your more likely to win the other two and therefore hold to the true equity you had upon getting the chips in rather than running it twice you basically should be more inclined for flip situations as opposed to when you are a larger favorite (and thus giving up equity often when running it twice).

Online however its only going to happen if the other player your up against also has it checked to run it twice, so I see it almost pointless because its used essentially to lower variance in all-in situations but its usually the times you really want to run it twice that the other person probably doesn't have it checked so I can't see how its in any way +EV to use it, but havn't really given it much thought as feels like more applicable live than online.

akaRobbo · May 5, 2014

BluffMeAllIn said:
I don't do it online, will often think about it live if its offered up either if I'm ahead or behind however at least in a live situation you have the option of yes or no when you want as opposed to always or never and many times its more beneficial to run it 3 times as opposed to 2 times in a 65/35 spot for example so that losing the 1st run means your more likely to win the other two and therefore hold to the true equity you had upon getting the chips in rather than running it twice you basically should be more inclined for flip situations as opposed to when you are a larger favorite (and thus giving up equity often when running it twice).

Online however its only going to happen if the other player your up against also has it checked to run it twice, so I see it almost pointless because its used essentially to lower variance in all-in situations but its usually the times you really want to run it twice that the other person probably doesn't have it checked so I can't see how its in any way +EV to use it, but havn't really given it much thought as feels like more applicable live than online.

Over time though running it twice doesn't have any effect on EV?

I'm still quite prone to tilting when I get sucked out on so running it twice might be a good idea in that case.

On stars, the default setting is never. But more than half the time it will run it twice like I have it set to (set to always). I would think nearly all players have it set to default (never), but its only running it once like 30% of the time it seems.

I hope that made sense. Why is this happening? There isn't a pop up box for villain to deny/ allow me to run it twice, it's automatic.

BluffMeAllIn · May 5, 2014

akaRobbo said:
Over time though running it twice doesn't have any effect on EV?

that I could not say for sure as never really gave long term much thought back when I was playing live, as its been a while since I did any serious amount of playing live poker and when I did it was a 1/2 game that played more like 5/10 $$$$ wise so was standard to wanna reduce short-term varience in the game at the time.......so perhaps long term you are correct it may not have any effect on ev

I'm still quite prone to tilting when I get sucked out on so running it twice might be a good idea in that case. - would you tilt more losing an 80/20 once or even worse losing it twice which could happen running it twice.....I think it would effect me more losing it twice because you figure surely you should win at least once in a back to back 80/20 situation

On stars, the default setting is never. But more than half the time it will run it twice like I have it set to (set to always). I would think nearly all players have it set to default (never), but its only running it once like 30% of the time it seems. perhaps more people have it selected to run then we think, because they see them running it twice in high stakes cash games its probably the cool thing to do lolp

I hope that made sense. Why is this happening? There isn't a pop up box for villain to deny/ allow me to run it twice, it's automatic.

some comments in bold.....but perhaps in the long run running it twice may not effect EV although as you said could impact on how it tilts you (good or bad). I mean I have watched some 1knl on stars tables before and there seem to be a number of players there who do the run it twice so perhaps my thoughts are completely wrong on the subject and its a good option for reducing short-term variance.....I guess if using an agressive brm perhaps it could be more advisable to reduce swings.

Certainly something I don't see many mentioned by many around cc that seem to be grinding cash, although probably not applicable enough to mention as I don't think they do it in live casino cash games at low limits and probably not something available at all sites for those who don't play stars/ftp.

akaRobbo · May 5, 2014

I do use an aggressive brm, only 20-25 BI. Currently at 16 for 10NL

and play quite loose. I guess I'll just keep running it twice for a whIle and see how I find it

gattusoleon · May 5, 2014

running it twice, i lose always, the probability 98 % with as as against internal straight 2%, and the river in twice killme in the two oportunities, t

DonkeyH3AD · May 6, 2014

How its possible to run twice on online?

duggs · May 6, 2014

running it twice has no effect on EV, it only occurs when both you and opponent have ticked run it twice on stars.

bushy_lufc · May 7, 2014

I am not sure if it has been said but running it twice is going to result in you losing to the house a lot!

duggs · May 7, 2014

bushy_lufc said:
I am not sure if it has been said but running it twice is going to result in you losing to the house a lot!

no

Staneff · May 8, 2014

Run it twice is useally in favour of the player in risk. It`s a tricky move. Never run it twice when you have best or good enough hand.

Carl Trooper · May 8, 2014

Staneff said:
Run it twice is useally in favour of the player in risk. It`s a tricky move. Never run it twice when you have best or good enough hand.

So if you are a 55% fav you are never running it twice?

Just helps eliminate variance and its good to do if its a HUGE pot and both players of course agree.

If I am 80%+ sure, I may decline, but flip situations I don't mind doing it.

akaRobbo · May 8, 2014

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

Button ($10.84)
SB ($10.75)
BB ($12.65)
Hero (UTG) ($10)
MP ($10.67)
CO ($10.59)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 3

, 4

2 folds, CO raises to $0.30, Button raises to $1.10, 2 folds, CO raises to $2.60, Button raises to $10.84 (All-In), CO calls $7.99 (All-In)

Running it twice

: ($10.67) 4

, Q

, J

First Turn: ($10.67) 10

First River: ($10.67) K

: ($10.67) A

, 7

, 6

Second Turn: ($10.67) 9

Second River: ($10.67) 6

Board 1: 4

, Q

, J

, 10

, K

Board 2: A

, 7

, 6

, 9

, 6

Total pot: $21.33 | Rake: $0.96

Results below:

Button had K

, K

Button had three of a kind, Kings on the first board
Button had two pair, Kings and sixes on the second board
CO had A

, K

CO had straight, Ace high on the first board and collected $10.67
CO had two pair, Aces and sixes on the second board and collected $10.67
Outcome: CO won $20.37

suby_rafael · May 12, 2014

This option is best to reduce variance as by checking this we can run the board twice if we are all in. However it only works if the villain also has the same settings activated in his poker client. If you play against those who have not checked "always" run it twice then the board will run out only once if you are playing against them.

One other advantage of using this setting is that you can play much more aggressively with most hands and try and put more pressure on them. Because if the fold them you take the whole pot or it they call then you have outs as the board will run twice. For this you have to take note that against which player on the table your board runs twice as it won't be the case with every player. After identifying them you can play accordingly.

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akaRobbo

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