Shouldn't a poker coach be a tax write-off??

ovitoo · Aug 11, 2012

Seeing as how any big profits are required to be taxed. casinos allow you to pay taxes immedeately. Example: Esfandiari paid around $5 million in taxes after the One Drop. I think if our profits are taxable, than any paid guidance that gets you there should fit the criteria for claims. Thoughts?

Debi · Aug 11, 2012

It can be claimed as a business expense.

WVHillbilly · Aug 11, 2012

dakota-xx said:
It can be claimed as a business expense.

ONLY if you're a professional poker player. If you just play for some cash on the side you can not deduct things like coaches/books.

CaptainKout · Aug 11, 2012

If you make enough money at anything, start a super-pac or buy a couple congressmen and you'll have your write-off.

spstevens · Aug 11, 2012

WVHillbilly said:
ONLY if you're a professional poker player. If you just play for some cash on the side you can not deduct things like coaches/books.

This is exactly correct. You can write nearly anything off depending on your profession. A stripper can write off breast enhancement,a policeman can write off his gun , a fisherman his boat and bait etc. In all the above most of the items are non deductible to most people .It must be a professional expense .

Debi · Aug 11, 2012

WVHillbilly said:
ONLY if you're a professional poker player. If you just play for some cash on the side you can not deduct things like coaches/books.

And how would the IRS define professional poker player?

Big_Rudy · Aug 11, 2012

dakota-xx said:
And how would the IRS define professional poker player?

I believe that there actually is a process in place for this and standards/requirements that have to be met. I never really looked into it much since it's not a consideration for me. But from what I understand there is a fairly strict set of requirements that the IRS must accept before they will allow you to classify yourself as a poker pro.

Charade You Are · Aug 11, 2012

dakota-xx said:
And how would the IRS define professional poker player?

From what I have read, there is no "definition". The IRS makes the determination on a case by case basis, but the bar is pretty high. According to the IRS "Like any other taxpayer, a gambler has the burden of proving that his activities rise to the level of a trade or business."

Reading the cases are tortuous, but if you are not engaged in gambling primarily full time and it is not your primary source of income and you don't have substantial per session records, it seems unlikely the IRS will buy that you are a professional gambler. Just my opinion, of course, don't want to get arrested for giving tax advice.

And if you are considered a professional and profitable, the downside appears to be that you have to pay self-employment tax of 13.3% for 2012 (10.4% for Social Security and 2.9% for Medicare).

Debi · Aug 11, 2012

Will hit up my roomie at the Borgata next month - she is a poker pro and a tax attorney.

Charade You Are · Aug 11, 2012

dakota-xx said:
Will hit up my roomie at the Borgata next month - she is a poker pro and a tax attorney.

Wow - how perfect is that

!

baudib1 · Aug 11, 2012

Deb, we'll have to have drinks or go to Noodles of the World or something, hit me up.

Debi · Aug 11, 2012

Charade You Are said:
Wow - how perfect is that !

Yea - already had questions for her on my personal situation. I have always had enough losses to offset my wins until this year. I am thinking I might be able to qualify as a pro starting this year - but will see what she has to say.

baudib1 said:
Deb, we'll have to have drinks or go to Noodles of the World or something, hit me up.

I am counting on that! Will introduce you to Jamie and Jennifer if you have never met them - they are both awesome. (will pm you my phone number before the trip)

ckickenking · Aug 12, 2012

It so confusing understanding the whats deductible and whats not. Also the requirement of becoming or define as a legit poker poker. Maybe someone here can write a article explaining everything

LuckyChippy · Aug 12, 2012

Move to Britain. We put on a mean Olympics and we don't pay tax on gambling. GAMBOL GAMBOL GAMBOL GAMBOL GAMBOL GAMBOL GAMBOL GAMBOL GAMBOL.

Debi · Aug 12, 2012

ckickenking said:
It so confusing understanding the whats deductible and whats not. Also the requirement of becoming or define as a legit poker poker. Maybe someone here can write a article explaining everything

I might be able to talk Jamie into doing that.

bullishwwd · Aug 12, 2012

WVHillbilly said:
ONLY if you're a professional poker player. If you just play for some cash on the side you can not deduct things like coaches/books.

I think you or anyone can IF you report all earnings and losses.

Bowman · Aug 12, 2012

You can pretty much deduct anything, just make sure you have proof like receipts. Don't want to get audited later on. And paying the taxes up front on winnings is always best. Depends on the person.

MediaBLITZ · Aug 12, 2012

LuckyChippy said:
Move to Britain. We put on a mean Olympics and we don't pay tax on gambling. GAMBOL GAMBOL GAMBOL GAMBOL GAMBOL GAMBOL GAMBOL GAMBOL GAMBOL.

That would be great and all but all the time it would take to have to learn a foreign language.

Charade You Are · Aug 12, 2012

Big_Rudy · Aug 12, 2012

dakota-xx said:
I might be able to talk Jamie into doing that.

That would be amazing if she is willing to do that.

bullishwwd said:
I think you or anyone can IF you report all earnings and losses.

I think its much more complex than this. As has been mentioned there are standards that must be met and each case reviewed on a case by case basis. Now, I could be totally wrong on this, and I for sure don't know what those standards are, but I believe the bar is pretty high.

arahel_jazz · Aug 12, 2012

I believe the "standard" here is the same for any self-employment gig. Keeping a set of books on income and expenses, keeping a running log of activities and travel needed to support the employment. There would be no "uniforms" per se to own or maintain. If a coach was a normal part of doing business (say you are a gymnast...) then I can believe it would be deductible.

So, (a long time ago) when I was looking at music as a career - it was basically the same thing. Record keeping and proving that you are doing it for a living instead of an expensive hobby. It helps if you actually get paid to do it now and then.

Consult a tax attorney. Oh wait - we are!

ovitoo · Aug 13, 2012

MediaBLITZ said:
That would be great and all but all the time it would take to have to learn a foreign language.

I hope that was a joke..they speak English in Britain

Big_Rudy · Aug 13, 2012

ovitoo said:
I hope that was a joke..they speak English in Britain

Debateable.......

MediaBLITZ · Aug 13, 2012

ovitoo said:
I hope that was a joke..they speak English in Britain

and what makes you think that English is not considered a foreign language in some parts of the world?

arahel_jazz · Aug 13, 2012

ovitoo said:
I hope that was a joke..they speak English in Britain

They speak the "Queen's English" in Britain. If you don't know where the boot is, then you don't speak the language.

Shouldn't a poker coach be a tax write-off??

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