Texas Holdem: turn one burn one what?

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Eclipsenz

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This is new to me and in saying that it doesn't make much sense since the mathmatical theory of outs and such is thrown out the window when this is applied.

In casinos I've never seen when you deal the flop you burn the first card, same goes for the turn and river.. nor at poker nights with the boys we just play with the deck itself not chucking/burning potential cards.

But 200km south of where I was, (I've just recently moved) it seems to be the norm, is this how Hold em is actually meant to be played? cause its news to be and like i said it doesn't make much sense cause of flop was

9,10,J

You have K8 so an open ender and an over.
14 outs right?

You burn the turn, what if that happened to be one of your outs

And same goes for the river what if it was one of your outs again and since both of those were burned and instead you were dealt dead cards like say 5-2 that would be no help to you at all.

So that takes it 12 outs right blowing that theory on outs etc.

same goes for if you had QQ flop comes 10,k,8 and the cards you burned happened to be both your Queens to give you trips, I don't get it tbh, unless I'm missing something here?
 
i thought the main reason for burning a card is to prevent cheating against marked cards?
 
I play occasionally in a couple home games and both different sets of friends, and they always burn cards.
I am not sure about casinos.
 
Unseen cards are all equal, you have no way of knowing what the burn card is so your odds/outs remain the same. Burning cards is a preventive measure against cheating.
 
But the whole burning of cards to prevent cheating is done and dusted now, no one can card count and such anymore, same goes for the marking its pretty much impossible unless the table is full of clueless dipshits lol


theres still would be times if you had an openender and both cards burned on the river and turn were both the outs you needed to give you a straight draw and instead you were shown cards that were of use to you yeah. so imo luck and chance plays more of a part that I originally though.

How is Pokerstars software setup, exactly the same or? as in burning of the cards.

i dunno it doesn't bother me much just yeah never really noticed.
 
No, pokerstars doesn't burn cards. There is no reason to online.

Again, unseen cards are all equal, you have no way of knowing what the burn card is so your odds/outs remain the same.
 
Eclipsenz said:
This is new to me and in saying that it doesn't make much sense since the mathmatical theory of outs and such is thrown out the window when this is applied.

You burn the turn, what if that happened to be one of your outs

And same goes for the river what if it was one of your outs again and since both of those were burned and instead you were dealt dead cards like say 5-2 that would be no help to you at all.
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No. An unseen card is an unseen card. How do you know one of your outs wasn't mucked? Same thing.
 
K does every live game follow this philosophy though, or at least should or does it vary? I havn't watched HEAPS of poker videos but unless I've been to oblivious to notice.. i havn't noticed lol.

Four Dogs said:
No. An unseen card is an unseen card. How do you know one of your outs wasn't mucked? Same thing.
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Fair call
 
They burn cards everywhere. From the wsop to every home game I've ever played in. You're just not very observant.

Also you say burnt cards could be your outs but they're just as likely to be cards that aren't your outs, so does that mean you're more likely to hit because they burn cards? (Hint: NO).
 
Have you watched the WSOP or Pokerstars shootout? Or Heads up tournament? Or any other major tourney TV? They all burn cards. Pretty common.
 
I don't think I've ever played in a live Holdem game where they skipped the burn cards. I always thought this was the norm.
 
Burning cards is the norm. Not burning is the Abnorm.
But D'Wilius has it right it changes nothing as far as outs, when you figure outs your figuring the number of cards that can come to make your hand, your not just counting those cards from the remaining cards in the deck because you have no clue if they are there or not other players may have mucked your outs.
 
It's pretty much all been said above - burning cards in a live game should be standard and it has absolutely zero effect on your likelihood of catching a card because, as d'wilius points out, an unseen card is an unseen card whether it's burned or at the bottom of the deck stub.

Every single game you've ever seen televised will use burn cards. A lot of telecasts will be edited in such a way that you don't usually see the dealer burning the card (because showing it would just be dead time and a broadcast is only so long), but I promise you it's being done. Typically the burn cards are placed under or next to the main pot so even if you don't see them being burned, you'll see them if the camera pans across the pot.

I'm checking a first three bits of live poker broadcasting I come across now just to be sure:

- Full Tilt Durrrr Million Dollar Challenge, episode 1: card burning process clearly shown
- High Stakes Poker, season 6 episode 12: burn cards clearly visible under the main pot
- 2010 PCA High Rollers event part 1: burn cards clearly visible under the main pot

As has been pointed out above, you burn cards to protect against marked cards in the deck. The back of the top card in the deck is clearly visible so if it's marked in some way it's possible that a player can know what card is going to come out next. Burning it ensures that a player can't know what's coming next on the board. It doesn't 100% eliminate the problems associated with marked cards but it certainly reduces them and because of this all games should use burn cards.

Don't think card marking is a common practice? I'll leave you with this to chew on: at least one deck had to be removed from the 2008 WSOP $50K HORSE event because it had been marked by a player.
 
Eclipsenz said:
But the whole burning of cards to prevent cheating is done and dusted now, no one can card count and such anymore, same goes for the marking its pretty much impossible unless the table is full of clueless dipshits lol
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Actually you never could count cards in Poker, 'cause the deck is shuffled every hand. The idea behind burning cards is that you should not see the backside of the card which comes next. For example: You had a 3 some rounds ago and realized that on the backside there was a little scratch in a corner.. There are no burn cards and you're holding two threes... you see on the top of the deck there is the three, so it will be on the flop and you can bet a whole lot postflop.. really ugly for the opponent if he holds like AA..
You never know who in the game knows some damages of the deck, so burning cards makes a lot of sense to me (lol on the guys who burn a card and then deal the flop face down before the 1st betting round is over... pure irony 😀 😀 )
 
CasperJames said:
I don't think I've ever played in a live Holdem game where they skipped the burn cards. I always thought this was the norm.
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+1, I never have played without burn cards
 
I've always burned cards, I've never seen anywhere that doesn't burn cards. Also, how does the burned cards affect your odds, if it's burned or it's at the bottom of the deck it makes no difference.
 
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