Trouble moving up in stakes

philthy said:

This is going to seem very silly to some people...And I feel very foolish that this is an issue for me.

I'm a bankroll nit and I don't know how to shake it. I'm sitting on a $280 BR on PokerStars, but I find myself constantly playing 2nl and $2 or less MTTs/SNGs. My BRM plan is as follows:

-30 buy-ins for ring games @ 100BBs
-30 buy-ins for SNGs
-50 buy-ins for MTSNGs and MTTs

So, its clear that I'm pretty much rolled for 5nl, $9 SNGs, and $5 MTTs but for some reason I cannot bring myself to play at these stakes. Even though I am over-rolled for the micro-stakes and properly rolled for higher stakes, I feel so uncomfortable. I don't know if Im scared of losing money or if I expect that I'll do really bad and I don't trust myself to play higher stakes. Maybe its just very hard for me to move out of my comfort zone since I've been playing micro-limit for the longest time. I know my confidence in my game is very low, which is one of the reasons why I try to stay as low as possible-thats something I have to fix.

I have no problem playing these small stakes, but would like to be able to build a bigger bankroll and play higher stakes. Im not comparing myself to other players, but its a bit frustrating, sometimes, seeing other members moving up in stakes/build BRs at a nice rate while I feel like Im stuck in the same place.

I don't want to think that I'm only "good" enough to play micro-limits, but if thats all I am good for I should get used to it.

So, how would one overcome this? Has anyone ever gone through this or feels similar?

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Philthy, I completely understand where you are at. I moved up from .05/.10 NLHE to .10/.25 because others were seemingly moving up due to their successes. I became impatient and frustrated. I also paid no attention to BR. Even though I did well at the .10/.25 limits, my gut feeling was that I was playing above my means.

I learned all I could about bankroll management and quickly discovered, I was playing unprotected so my gut was right. Now I listen to my instincts and I've found that my first impressions or feelings are usually correct. I believe I've found a good balance between my new found bankroll nit behavior and following my instincts.

I've created a "move up" plan based on BR management which fits my playing style (tight aggressive). Now I feel much more comfortable playing and not worried about loosing my buy-in b/c my BR can handle the ups and downs.

btw - I did drop back to .05/.10 ring games. Mentally, I know that I can drop back just as easy as I can move up. This thought process has lessened my frustrations and impatience. Also, it does NOT matter how others are performing with their BR. Just b/c others are moving up doesn't mean they are doing it for the right reasons or doing well. Their success could also be an illusion. Heaven forbid.....they could be lying too Bottom line: I've learned other people's BR doesn't matter. My recommendation to you is: Know your playing style, follow your BR management, continue to do things to improve (play well, books, Cardschat forums) and trust your instincts. That's is about all you can do. Good Luck

custo80 said:

How do you personally categorize the difference between a MTSNG and a MTT?

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MTSNG's start when preset # of players register
MTT's start at a preset time, regardless of # of players registered

Moving up in limits can be a difficult process if you are not confident in your playing ability and when you are just not mentally ready to move up. If I were you, I would move up and start trying out the tables a little bit and try to remember to play the same way you did (the way you won the money). Once you start consistently winning pots and such, you will gain enough confidence to stay at that level and make good money .

lol sounds exactly like me...but I think IM worse..

I got a bankroll of $500 and still feel really uncomfy playing the $3.40s sngs at pokerstars..its just because if I lose 5 buy-ins (which happens) I just lost over $15 and those $15 arent easy to get at micro stakes! ..so I play .02/.05 NL with over 100 buy-ins and still dont think im ready to play .05/.10 yet (Im sure I would dominate this level but not ready for its variance) ..but decided when I hit around maybe $600 Ill move up..

I also remember when my bankroll was around $200-$300 ..I was stuck there for so long and couldnt seem to move up..I found out that I was moving around too much from ring games, sngs, and mtts...I sucked so bad at MTTs just cause I would always bust out early to bad players when my QQs and KKs get busted with A5o so I decided to just not play but I the only reason I played so much MTTs was just to get a big boost in my BR so I can play ring games comfortably ..Then I finally started to focus on just ring games and turbo sngs and slowly built it up...

The lower stakes we play the lower risk we take with our BR and vice versa ..I feel safer with just grinding 2/5nl until I get close to 100 buy-ins for .10 nl..lol

koadyawn said:

I got a bankroll of $500 and still feel really uncomfy playing the $3.40s sngs at pokerstars..its just because if I lose 5 buy-ins (which happens) I just lost over $15 and those $15 arent easy to get at micro stakes!

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Whaaaaaaat? $15 out of $500 are 3%. That's absolutely nothing. It's negligible. Some of you guys really need to start thinking in relative terms, not in absolute terms. That's the only way to consistently move up without being on scared money all the time.

philthy said:

This is going to seem very silly to some people...And I feel very foolish that this is an issue for me.

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It is silly, could you imagine wanting to play live poker for nickels? I wouldn't want to play less than .50/1 so what the hell am I doing
I wouldn't even consider playing for pennies if Pokerstars didn't offer it. Wy worst downswings are 10-12 buyins sng/mtt and 5-6 ring, so I'm giving way too much cushion. I just slapped my self twice, I'm going to start playing poker.

D'wilius said:

I just slapped my self twice, I'm going to start playing poker.

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I just slapped you a couple times too. This is how we play poker? I kinda like it!

forget the tourneys and concentrate on cash games. Steady money and your overall game will improve.

I've never really been into cash games, but I'm leaning towards playing them more.

I'm properly rolled for 5nl (100BB buy-in) so, I'll probably start with that. I think playing 2nl with 130+ 100BB buy-ins is just a bit too nitty. I could max buy-in for $5, but I'm doing that, I might as well play 5nl.

I'll continue to play tournaments as well, but will stick with the smaller buy-ins. I'll play any MTT/MTSNG for $1 or less so I can focus most of my BR on 5nl and occasionally 2nl. I'll also focus majority of my time on ring games, maybe 80% ring and 20% on MTTs.

Just try a few bigger buy-in ring/MTT/SNG the play at doesnt change that much its still the micros and i know u can beat the 6$ sng and 10NL just like the 1$ and 2NL.

imo dont move up.....keep getting better and get more and more experience in. If you keep trying you'll go deep in an mtt and eventually be rolled for much higher...then youll feeel safe to play the 5$ mtts and 9$ sngs

edit: this does not mean that I dont think youre good enough to move up, just means you'll feel more comfortable

i am a bankroll dude
ive got $500 now from nothing
but its over a few sites
however the best site i have $130
now what i do is no more than 1% on any game so $1.30 is my limet at the monent at that site
now say i play a game and win $20
i may put say $9 to bankroll
and use $11 on a buyin just for fun
it allows me to try a bigger level and grow my bankroll
but it is still hard to do as i want $20 to go bankroll
its dos allow me play in bigger games and if i was to place it brakes the mental block and allows me to move forward
and if i do place i can do the same again
say i get $60 from from that well $38 to bankroll and $22 for whatever

my suggestion: just try it, another thing, try playin steps GL

KingCurtis said:

imo dont move up.....keep getting better and get more and more experience in. If you keep trying you'll go deep in an mtt and eventually be rolled for much higher...then youll feeel safe to play the 5$ mtts and 9$ sngs

edit: You Suck

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FYP, homeboy. LOL.

Hmmm, now that I've read this. Maybe I should start the cash-grind at 2nl and work my way up? That'll give me the Ring game experience while providing me enough to play MTTs with. I can also MT the 2nl games as well.

Yes Philthy! Come over to the dark side! You are gonna like a little ring style monies.

You can always go splash around in the touneys with all the cash winnings you make!

dont move up till your winning simple

If you don't feel comfortable with max buy-in for 5nl you should just buy in with half the amount. I buy in with $5 and never feel uncomfortable. Also, there is some decent money (by my standards ) in 2/5.

Hell I'm up $60 in the last week or so and I know for a fact you are better than I. Give it a go

philthy said:

This is going to seem very silly to some people...And I feel very foolish that this is an issue for me.

I don't want to think that I'm only "good" enough to play micro-limits, but if thats all I am good for I should get used to it.

So, how would one overcome this? Has anyone ever gone through this or feels similar?

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Couple three questions?

1) Are you a winning player? (Meaning: Do you have records that show your play to be profitable over 10K hands or more???)

2) Are you financially secure? (Meaning: Are you out of debt with 3-6 months living exspenses tucked away???)

3) Are you properly banked? (Meaning: Have you calculated YOUR variance and how big YOUR bankroll needs to be? A formula that you got out of a book or off the internet doesn't count.)

Any player who can answer yes to these three questions and still not want to move up is just being silly.

D'wilius said:

My worst downswings are 10-12 buyins sng/mtt and 5-6 ring

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Forget moving up, maybe I'll have my first real downswing . I'm down 5 buyins since deciding to play more. A few standard beats, a couple mistakes and then last two were all in on turn 2-out rivers. Let's try this again.

philthy said:

FYP, homeboy. LOL.

Hmmm, now that I've read this I really don't suck, I'm just too modest to let everyone know I'm a pro. Maybe I should start the cash-grind at 2nl and work my way up? That'll give me the Ring game experience while providing me enough to play MTTs with. I can also MT the 2nl games as well.

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FYP

KingCurtis said:

I suck at lying. LOLz

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QFT.

Double-A said:

Couple three questions?

1) Are you a winning player? (Meaning: Do you have records that show your play to be profitable over 10K hands or more???)
...I dont have 10K hands in ring games under my belt in ring games because I've strictly an SNG and MTT player. I believe, looking at my overall OPR and SS stats, I'm up. I dont use PT, HEM, or anything to keep track of my stats or anything.

2) Are you financially secure? (Meaning: Are you out of debt with 3-6 months living exspenses tucked away???)
...I'm financially secure to play the micro-limits. I'm not planning on moving up to 100nl or anything like that. I'm not looking for a big jump in games, just the next level up. I have money to take care of my bills and everything and the money in my account is for that, just like the money in my poker account is just for my online games.


3) Are you properly banked? (Meaning: Have you calculated YOUR variance and how big YOUR bankroll needs to be? A formula that you got out of a book or off the internet doesn't count.)
...No, I haven't. Im not sure exactly where I would obtain this information, either.

Any player who can answer yes to these three questions and still not want to move up is just being silly.
...Its not a matter of me wanting or not wanting to move up, its just how do I know if I'm ready to move up? Maybe I'm not and should just stick with the micros or maybe I am and I'm not giving myself enough credit? I'm not sure. Maybe its not so bad to stick my comfort zone and play the microstakes because I'm nothing more than a casual player.

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...Above.

Play a shortish (30-45mins) session at 5nl and send all the HHs to a cash player willing to look over your hands and give you feedback. That way youll get a more insightful opinion on whether your ready to move up and advice on how to imrpove your game. If you cant find any of the resident Ring Game HA crew (you know who you are!) to look over your hands id be willing to do it.

Sounds like a good idea, but I'll be starting with 2nl instead of 5nl.

I'll be playing straight forward, ABC tight-aggressive poker at these tables and will be keeping track of progress on a spreadsheet.

philthy said:

Sounds like a good idea, but I'll be starting with 2nl instead of 5nl.

I'll be playing straight forward, ABC tight-aggressive poker at these tables and will be keeping track of progress on the free demo of PT or HEM.

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FYP