From turbo sng's to regular.

I've noticed turbo sng's involve much more luck than regular sng's. Or maybe I just suck at turbo games. If you look at my graph you see that up to 350 games i've only gone down, and at 350 games i changed to regular sng's. It's a huge difference in my graph. Might be because i started reading alot more strategy and poker theory, but the change from turbo to regular must've been the main reason.

I play 6-max $2-5 Sng's btw.

http://www.sharkscope.com/SharkScop...hHeight=420&nocache=1249866689026&version=293

what do you think?

The blinds for normal SNG's go up slower, which will allow betters players to tighten up and wait for hands, while in turbo's you are forced to make moves sooner than you would like. That is my personal view on the difference between the two.

As far as the comment above goes about 'better players' being able to wait for better hands (or however it was worded)... there are also ALOT of better players in the Turbo Sng's. They require a different skillset than regs.
What I've come to know in my experience is.... most of the regulars who play SNG's (the guys who mulit-table and who do well in them) are actually playing the Turbos. Try running stats. on every single player on 10 turbo tables, compared with 10 reg. tables (check 'em out on PokerEdge too). You'll see that there are a larger percentage of winning players who play in the turbos. It is of crucial importance to understand ICM when playin the Turbos and to have a good shove/fold game once the blinds get high (which they inevitably do in the reg. speed ones eventually anyways.. not quite as high obviously but still high enough where it's usually a shove/fold game on the bubble or just prior to it.

One of the reasons your results have improved so much might be because you spent some time playing turbos first. (I didn't look at your results.. I'm just going by what you've written). For myself, after having played strictly regular speed SNG's for around a year, I played mostly Turbos for about 3mos. (and did a bunch of research on Turbos prior). I found it helped my game out alot when I switched back to reg. speeds.

For a good Sng player, their ROI will be higher if they're playing reg. speeds but their hourly winrate will probably be less (or about the same). Playing Turbos becomes much more robotic in nature once one gets familiar with the game, also allowing one the potential to play more tables.

One thing I find I keep running into on the reg. speed SNG's is, depending upon the time of day and day of the week, the play will vary significantly. Early afternoon and very, very late at night (EST) are when the best players are on the tables and for me this is when I actually get the best results (early in the day the regulars are playing and very late at night is when the European grinders are playing). At the other times of the day, the $10's & $20's resemble the $2's (... I HATE the $2's, lol).

OH men my opinion regular sit n go are so slowly, try to practice and just play In turbo. Is like the same but at the final moments you see a lot of all in people, but if you are good you can take advantages of this. keep practicing, take your time, but if you want make more money In sit n go, turbo 4 tables per time.

Gl

Poker Orifice: i like the point you made. i'm uncomfortable in turbos knowing i can't play as tight...and i like to play pretty damn tight for a good while. but you bring up the "shove/fold game" aspect...which i feel is a pretty decent part of my game, at least for me, i'm no pro or anything.

i seem to do about as well in turbos as i do in regular sng's. i also fair much better when there are good players in regular sng's...but i probably have slightly better results against morons in the turbos as opposed to slightly worse results against morons in reg sng's

Turbo's are just what they say on the tin.
Sure, you can play your tight range for the first few levels and make some moves. But usually, by the time you reach 4 handed, or even the final 5, its a shove fest!

I'm one of those players who will always play turbos ahead of normal SNG's, unless of course its a MTT in which case i'll choose to play regular speed for obvious reasons.

I just enjoy playing turbos more, yes there are more possibilities to suck out to donks, but I just find the fact your not sitting there for what can seem like hours to just earn 80c much more enjoyable.

I prefer Turbo's myself, and find that I do better in them than in regular SnG's. After playing turbo's for a long time, regular speed feels like such a grind, and I find myself getting impatient and losing focus.

I also prefer the fast cash tables. Although I try very hard not to let it tilt me during a game, one of my biggest pet peeves is people who take an inordinate amount of time on every hand. I prefer keeping them on a short timer.

i seem to do about as well in turbos as i do in regular sng's. i also fair much better when there are good players in regular sng's...but i probably have slightly better results against morons in the turbos as opposed to slightly worse results against morons in reg sng's

Ahhh.... well said.. Ted. This is the exact same experience for myself. Recently there's been ALOT of noobs & morons on the regs. in the $10's on Fulltilt.

Jeikeiem said:

I've noticed turbo sng's involve much more luck than regular sng's. Or maybe I just suck at turbo games. If you look at my graph you see that up to 350 games i've only gone down, and at 350 games i changed to regular sng's. It's a huge difference in my graph. Might be because i started reading alot more strategy and poker theory, but the change from turbo to regular must've been the main reason.

I play 6-max $2-5 Sng's btw.

http://www.sharkscope.com/SharkScop...hHeight=420&nocache=1249866689026&version=293

what do you think?

Click to expand...

I think your waiting, a bit to long to make any moves, thus the blinds are killing you. Turbos SNGs are fun, but you should start out in regular SNGs, once you get the hang of how you should be playing, then try out a turbo.

I don't know if anyone is on board, with me on this But here it gos.
From how i have been playing, you may need to raise more, shove.
Blinds go up faster, so you need to build up chips just as quick.
I don't think Poker Orifice will be with me on that???

Honestly, just wait for YOUR right moment and squeeze what you can out of it. By then your around 2000-3000 and you have room to make moves.

At this time the blinds are about 100/200 and up so you can slow it down a bit if you want.

Don't be suprised when you get the suckouts, I JUST raises with KK and had someone push back with AK only to hit Ace on the river. It's part of the game and you will have to deal with it.

Please don't tell me you play better against better players. That is hogwash !! The way you make money in poker is find the players who make the more mistakes than you do.

Yes, there is more of an element of luck involved with turbo's than reg sngs', same is true really for any of the shorter stacked mtts.

Turbos at the final table turn into an ai shove fest as already mentioned it takes luck to have your AA hold up or to hit your 89 su, etc; During late stages there just aren't that many chances to play out a hand, have a preflop raise that doesn't turn into an all in preflop or if you get to the flop to get beyond it without an all in.

dufferdevon said:

Please don't tell me you play better against better players. That is hogwash !! The way you make money in poker is find the players who make the more mistakes than you do.

Click to expand...

not as hogwashy as you think. especially in cheap sng's. those are really fishy tables. if its early, to anyone's raise, half the table will just go ahead and call it to see the flop, then the "oh i can get a flush, i better keep calling" "oh i can get a straight, i better keep calling"...sometimes it turns into a real nightmare and they end up just passing chips back and forth. of course, sometimes they do knock each other out in the first 5 mins. i'd rather play against ppl who are at least somewhat competant

poker orifice makes a great point. the level of cometition is higher in the turbos. they learn to play a shovebot style and exploit the ones that don't. i do agree there's a higher degree of variance in the turbos but think that skill will over ride this in the end. so i beleive it more the higher level of skill you find in the turbos that is the factor. I too have better success in the reg. SNGs but feel its because i got more time in the low blinds to outplay the donks. and by the time its in the higher blinds i got way better reads than i would in turbos. so i know if i can steal or resteal.

I think the regular sng's favor the patient/cuatious player while the turbo games favor the more agressive/confident player. Ideally, to improve all aspects of your game play both. Your win percentage may not be as high at turbo, but eventually you'll figure out how to play in that environment.

I started out playing normal sngs and was doing alright, but then I noticed all the pros all seemed to be playing the turbos. At first I just thought it was because they could play more games per session, but then I noticed the rake is significantly lower for the turbos. For instance, on star the rake is 10% for the regular SnGs, but only 8% for the $6.50 turbo, 6% for the $16 turbo and again 8% for the $27 turbos (not sure why the $16 are lower). After seeing this I started made a made a deposit to boost my BR then started playing the $16 turbos even though I was still slightly under rolled (I figured I could reload if necessary) and my ROI has been significantly higher. I don't think people truly under stand how detrimental the rake is to ones long term win rate. Although I don’t think one is any easier then the other just faster so you have to really pay attention to the blinds and chip stack.

As far as the all-in fest goes once your chip stack gets down to 10bb or less it is almost always best to push rather then just make a standard raise since a standard raise that would make you pot committed and if were to get re-raised you would have a tough decision to make, so the player who know what they are doing almost always push once down to 10bb or less unless they have a good reason not to.

^^without quoting ppl's entire posts. i like this thread because its making me think a little bit more about playing some turbos rather than just defaulting to regular.

larry says a reg favors the patient, cautious player, which is definitely what i am *most* of the time. but at the same time, i feel maybe i'm just a little bit patient to a fault; sometimes it pays off and sometimes i'm damn near blinding out when card dead and out of there one way or another.

pawkit aces is saying "hey dude, i see a lot of guys who play this game for a living jumping in the turbos and i'm starting to see why" and talks about <10BB=push time rather than std raise. which i think is entirely correct, and is something i'm completely comfortable doing with a fairly wide range of hands, escalating as my stack dwindles. its often surprising to see how often you'll get folds all around to lt|eq to 10bb's left shove, and surprising to see what crap will call it to double you up (or get lucky)

the payoff in a sng, to me, the fun part, is near the end, where i can shove liberally with 3 ppl left. i go back to std raises heads up with high cards (if this is wrong, let me know, it seems to work for me). so in a turbo, we could be in shove/fold mode with 7, 6, or 5 people remaining. sounds like fun. i should probably try to play in some more turbos.

action

I prefer the turbos because of the action,,,but I seem to do a little better in the regular SNGs'''\Take care

To mine, superturbo SNG, not suitable variant for development bankroll, here it is necessary to play any average hand and often to be beaten, here simply a turbo-it best variant!

I also prefer turbo, the game is faster and a lot more action. There is different strategy for regular and turbo, practice makes perfect. Play a lot, then play some more.

Thanks for you replies.

I've moved back to Turbo 9-max sng's now. I'm 38% ITM, mostly 3rd and 1st place. Still i get sucked out on all the time and my graph is suffering. I'm mostly in with the best hand but it isn't rare that you loose 1 of 2 all ins even if you have the best hand pre-flop, and ofter enough you atleast have to face 2 all ins before the money, even if you're a good push/fold player. I aint saying i've mastered turbo sng's, but i think I'm good enough to make some profit.

Post some links to turbo sng strategy videos / threads / reading.
ICM calculator recommendations too. : )

I freely admit to being an Action Junkie. I play over 100 super turbos a month. And yes in most months i come out ahead.

One of the points that doesnt get made often is that turbos, at the lower buy in levels, typically have a smaller fee than the normal paced. While this only amounts to change over a few tourneys, over time it can add up.

Of course with the blinds going up faster in the turbos, you do have to change your play quite a bit. Drawing hands go down in value, while a couple of high cards go up. Being able to play the shortstack well is crucial, and typically your success will be determined by how well you
recognize opportunities to pick up the blinds as the tournament draws near the money bubble. Knowing who will defend their stack and who's simply looking to hang on just long enough to cash is very valuable information.