Two same hands at the same time on two different poker rooms multi-tabling?

Yeah just got JJ twice in a row to start a tourny on FTP yesterday. Won with both.

Has anyone ever been dealt T4o looked outside and noticed it was raining?

Coincidence or external influence?

Worthy of a thread?

In one tournament i played... I had ace 9 diamonds 2 hands in a row with the flop being 3d,4c,8d both times...same suit and everything.
I said wow @ the flop and someone said that they had the same cards in the 2 hands... just like i did.
No one else said anything but it could be that the deal was repeated.

Ok this is a good one. This should dispell some of the myths that cards come out absolutely randomly. For a three day period somewhere around March or April of this yr., I was running an "ALL-IN" experiment of my own to see what would "hit" while I played Face The Ace FRs on FTP and I began seeing the old "Montana Banana (92 suited for those who don't know) and I decided to try it. BINGO! I began trying every single MB hand ALL-IN and it hit every time on multiple different software platforms but none like the FTA FRs. I understand also that it depends on who called me and all but darned if it didn't hit just about every time against almost any kind of hand. I would get either 22something or 99something on the flop or I would hit the flush with one or the other hole card. I can't explain it, don't know if it's even worth mentioning, but is it just another one of those "anomolies"? It is most likely the cause but as an experienced computer guy and decent math/science person I pick up on some of these "anomolies" and it DOES pay off sometimes.

Hallelujah the statistically improbable happens again--somebody call the papers!

KoRnholio said:

There's only so many combinations of starting hands/flops/etc in holdem. Eventually you'll get two identical ones, just as you would playing one table at a time. Each site uses their own RNG, they aren't in cahoots

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^^^Agree. We've all experienced this from time to time, it's not like it is a common occurence though.

OzExorcist said:

Play enough hands and eventually you'll see everything happen at least once

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^^^Exactly.

Deadly Silent;1294719[B said:

]I was going to say something to this effect but this guy ruined it with his bullshit.[/B] I have had the same hand back to back several times but it is hardly ever the same suits. Still waiting for the back to back bullets though.

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^^Is it just me or is this comment a bit over the top and not necessary to speak that way to another member?

Stu_Ungar said:

Has anyone ever been dealt T4o looked outside and noticed it was raining?

Coincidence or external influence?

Worthy of a thread?

Click to expand...

^^^Lmao! Yes, let me get my tinfoil hat before you begin!

AAChipMagnet said:

Ok this is a good one. This should dispell some of the myths that cards come out absolutely randomly. For a three day period somewhere around March or April of this yr., I was running an "ALL-IN" experiment of my own to see what would "hit" while I played Face The Ace FRs on FTP and I began seeing the old "Montana Banana (92 suited for those who don't know) and I decided to try it. BINGO! I began trying every single MB hand ALL-IN and it hit every time on multiple different software platforms but none like the FTA FRs. I understand also that it depends on who called me and all but darned if it didn't hit just about every time against almost any kind of hand. I would get either 22something or 99something on the flop or I would hit the flush with one or the other hole card. I can't explain it, don't know if it's even worth mentioning, but is it just another one of those "anomolies"? It is most likely the cause but as an experienced computer guy and decent math/science person I pick up on some of these "anomolies" and it DOES pay off sometimes.

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^^^So how many times did this happen? Do you have a hud or your hand histories so you can post it here?

AAChipMagnet said:

Ok this is a good one. This should dispell some of the myths that cards come out absolutely randomly. For a three day period somewhere around March or April of this yr., I was running an "ALL-IN" experiment of my own to see what would "hit" while I played Face The Ace FRs on FTP and I began seeing the old "Montana Banana (92 suited for those who don't know) and I decided to try it. BINGO! I began trying every single MB hand ALL-IN and it hit every time on multiple different software platforms but none like the FTA FRs. I understand also that it depends on who called me and all but darned if it didn't hit just about every time against almost any kind of hand. I would get either 22something or 99something on the flop or I would hit the flush with one or the other hole card. I can't explain it, don't know if it's even worth mentioning, but is it just another one of those "anomolies"? It is most likely the cause but as an experienced computer guy and decent math/science person I pick up on some of these "anomolies" and it DOES pay off sometimes.

Click to expand...

Dispel some of the myths? As a long-time computer guy and math/science person myself, I am pretty confident that there is no "myth" about any major sites' RNGs being random. They are random, as random as can be generated by a computer (which is never purely random as defined by nature, but close enough for human consumption). Randomness, by it's definition, will generate identifiable patterns over a long run. Just because it doesn't "look" random, or you identify patterns, doesn't make it less random. Random doesn't mean there are no patterns, it means they are non-deterministic and cannot be predicted. You might seize upon a pattern and "correctly" predict what will happen next, but it is nothing more than coincidence. Try to do it over a long sample period and see how good your predictions run.

dmorris68 said:

Dispel some of the myths? As a long-time computer guy and math/science person myself, I am pretty confident that there is no "myth" about any major sites' RNGs being random. They are random, as random as can be generated by a computer (which is never purely random as defined by nature, but close enough for human consumption). Randomness, by it's definition, will generate identifiable patterns over a long run. Just because it doesn't "look" random, or you identify patterns, doesn't make it less random. Random doesn't mean there are no patterns, it means they are non-deterministic and cannot be predicted. You might seize upon a pattern and "correctly" predict what will happen next, but it is nothing more than coincidence. Try to do it over a long sample period and see how good your predictions run.

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Nice tought here..
True.. there is no real ramdom in nature..
Everything can be predicted.. not by humans tho...lol....

dmorris68 said:

Dispel some of the myths? As a long-time computer guy and math/science person myself, I am pretty confident that there is no "myth" about any major sites' RNGs being random. They are random, as random as can be generated by a computer (which is never purely random as defined by nature, but close enough for human consumption). Randomness, by it's definition, will generate identifiable patterns over a long run. Just because it doesn't "look" random, or you identify patterns, doesn't make it less random. Random doesn't mean there are no patterns, it means they are non-deterministic and cannot be predicted. You might seize upon a pattern and "correctly" predict what will happen next, but it is nothing more than coincidence. Try to do it over a long sample period and see how good your predictions run.

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I agree with you whole-heartedly and I think we are actually on the same page on this. Computer generated random is not the same as random random. Human generated random is not random random either and computers and software are made by humans. Similarly, the poker sites' software may use different generators but how different are the generators? And aren't each of these generators VALIDATED BY HUMANS AS TO THEIR RANDOMNESS AND FAIRNESS? To bring this whole thread together and to make some sense of all of this I want to say that nothing in life is entirely random. There are specific correlations between events and there outcomes. And yes humans are great at picking out patterns and also at exploiting them for some form of gain. I AM NOT SAYING THAT POKER ROOMS ARE IN CAHOOTS! I HAVE NOT CAPTURED A HAND HISTORY OF THESE OCCURANCES MYSELF BUT I CAN SEE OTHERS HAVE SO I AM NOT ALONE IN MY OBSERVATIONS. Each post that someone makes that they had this such and such hand and this happened....only confirms that most likely everyone who plays poker, or any other game for that matter, looks for patterns or anything that can give them an edge. That being said, if you notice something happening again and again such as QQ losing continually to AA or every time you catch a pair someone else has a better one, or whatever it may be, don't ignore it but don't bet your life savings on it either. That is really all I wanted to say.

AAChipMagnet said:

I agree with you whole-heartedly and I think we are actually on the same page on this. Computer generated random is not the same as random random. Human generated random is not random random either and computers and software are made by humans. Similarly, the poker sites' software may use different generators but how different are the generators? And aren't each of these generators VALIDATED BY HUMANS AS TO THEIR RANDOMNESS AND FAIRNESS? To bring this whole thread together and to make some sense of all of this I want to say that nothing in life is entirely random. There are specific correlations between events and there outcomes. And yes humans are great at picking out patterns and also at exploiting them for some form of gain. I AM NOT SAYING THAT POKER ROOMS ARE IN CAHOOTS! I HAVE NOT CAPTURED A HAND HISTORY OF THESE OCCURANCES MYSELF BUT I CAN SEE OTHERS HAVE SO I AM NOT ALONE IN MY OBSERVATIONS. Each post that someone makes that they had this such and such hand and this happened....only confirms that most likely everyone who plays poker, or any other game for that matter, looks for patterns or anything that can give them an edge. That being said, if you notice something happening again and again such as QQ losing continually to AA or every time you catch a pair someone else has a better one, or whatever it may be, don't ignore it but don't bet your life savings on it either. That is really all I wanted to say.

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I have noticed a pattern.

Crazy's rarely use paragraphs.

Call me crazy if you want. If you can't read without paragraphs, may I suggest "READING FOR DUMMIES". Wow, I thought Stu was a drug addict. One heck of a guy to look up 2. Great card reading talent and poker player but snorting or shooting all of your winnings is not exactly how one should want to go out. Good luck with reading school Stu.

AAChipMagnet said:

Call me crazy if you want. If you can't read without paragraphs, may I suggest "READING FOR DUMMIES". Wow, I thought Stu was a drug addict. One heck of a guy to look up 2. Great card reading talent and poker player but snorting or shooting all of your winnings is not exactly how one should want to go out. Good luck with reading school Stu.

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"Reading for dummies", is this the prequel to "writing for dummies"?

I believe "patterns for the clueless" is part of the same series of books.

In all seriousness, the irony of recommending I read a book whilst simultaneously implying I am illiterate may be lost upon you.

AAChipMagnet said:

I agree with you whole-heartedly and I think we are actually on the same page on this. Computer generated random is not the same as random random. Human generated random is not random random either and computers and software are made by humans. Similarly, the poker sites' software may use different generators but how different are the generators? And aren't each of these generators VALIDATED BY HUMANS AS TO THEIR RANDOMNESS AND FAIRNESS? To bring this whole thread together and to make some sense of all of this I want to say that nothing in life is entirely random. There are specific correlations between events and there outcomes. And yes humans are great at picking out patterns and also at exploiting them for some form of gain. I AM NOT SAYING THAT POKER ROOMS ARE IN CAHOOTS! I HAVE NOT CAPTURED A HAND HISTORY OF THESE OCCURANCES MYSELF BUT I CAN SEE OTHERS HAVE SO I AM NOT ALONE IN MY OBSERVATIONS. Each post that someone makes that they had this such and such hand and this happened....only confirms that most likely everyone who plays poker, or any other game for that matter, looks for patterns or anything that can give them an edge. That being said, if you notice something happening again and again such as QQ losing continually to AA or every time you catch a pair someone else has a better one, or whatever it may be, don't ignore it but don't bet your life savings on it either. That is really all I wanted to say.

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Well, don't misunderstand me -- I threw in the "never truly random" disclaimer only because someone will inevitably bring it up, but the practical truth of the matter is modern pseudo-random generation on modern hardware is effectively "truly" random as far as human perception, and all practical purposes, goes. I'd say modern RNGs are far more random than any human dealer, unless you can find a robo-dealer that can wash/strip/riffle/wash/riffle/cut/wash/riffle numerous times between every deal without pissing off the whole table. Cards are far more likely to "clump" and repeat with a human dealer than with a RNG.

And yes, I'm pretty sure ALL of the sites/networks use customized RNGs, as that is the core of their entire backend gaming engine. But just for sake of argument, even if they used the exact same unmodified RNG library, they all have different seed, reseed, and entropy behaviors, therefore you would still virtually never get an identical pattern between them. To complicate it further, you have sites like Stars that use a set deck (only shuffled once per deal), as opposed to FT and others that constantly shuffle non-stop even during the hand.

With all of these variables involved, it is practically impossible for them to converge in such a way as to produce even remotely identical patterns. So there is virtually no way for two different sites to "coordinate" on their deals outside of just pure coincidence, and "coincidence" happens far more often than people seem to realize.

^^^^

+1

this sounds like a case of "the mind sees what it wants to see".
perhaps your finding whatever similarities you can find, however they may come or appear. and besides, if you play thousands of hands, it makes perfect sense that you will have identicle ones. what the worst that can happen, the entire online poker world is coming after you.

You know what? Maybe this is a topic best left alone at this point. Stu I apologize for honoring your personal comments attacking me with a personal retort of my own. Basically juvenile just like our politicians. Nobody will ever be able to really prove their own argument over another's regarding how truly random cards are dealt whether it is the poker room, their software or proprietary RNGs.
You are right dmorris68 that computers can most likely generate something much more random than human beings could ever and that each poker room will most likely have their own tweak on things, including burning cards, etc. I simply don't know enough about it and this was part of the reason I started this thread. Also to see what other people were finding on their own. How they percieve what they experience. This wasn't a topic I started so everyone would fight over their individual philosphies about poker and life or whether poker is "fixed" or not.
So, maybe I am a little crazy looking for non-random patterns in what is supposed to be random and don't always worry about writing within the parameters of paragraphs. Maybe it's my inquiring mind. Maybe I sniffed too much glue as a child. Probably all of the above. I just think that there is much more to be explored about how individual online poker rooms run their business of card dealing based on what I've seen thus far and they won't let you into their backend operations so...... I think that each room would like to prove that their site is the "fairest" because of the inherent value that it represents to players and each has their dedicated website pages about the topic so clearly it is a topic that deserves SOME attention.
So to all of you who would like to continue to debate your own perceptions on this topic, feel free to keep posting. I don't feel I have anything else to contribute at this time.

I hate it when the hands on both tables are monster for the opposite flops.

Sometimes that affects how i play them thinking theyre on the corresponding tables.