Is using collusion to beat the casino games wrong?

pat3392 · Aug 2, 2010

Just was wondering what people's opinions on this were

Stu_Ungar · Aug 2, 2010

Its not only wrong, if proven, it can land you in jail!

Poof · Aug 2, 2010

Of course it's wrong, cheating of any form no matter what it is for, is wrong.

only_bridge · Aug 2, 2010

Stu_Ungar said:
Its not only wrong, if proven, it can land you in jail!

Or even worse, behind the casio, with the guards...

Stu_Ungar · Aug 2, 2010

Actually OP should give it a go.

casinos are probably not used to dealing with colludes and probably don't have measures in place to detect them.

pat3392 · Aug 2, 2010

The kind of "cheating" I'm referring to is not looking at people's hole cards. I was thinking of when some random player raises preflop that I could reraise and my partner reraise again, then I'd fold to him. I was also thinking of both of us acting like know it all dicks to put others on tilt, *shrug* not sure if making some money is worth upsetting others and creating potential enemies though

appaz86 · Aug 2, 2010

Stu_Ungar said:
Actually OP should give it a go.

Casinos are probably not used to dealing with colludes and probably don't have measures in place to detect them.

i lol'd

yea OP give it a go! let us know how it goes

Stu_Ungar · Aug 2, 2010

pat3392 said:
The kind of "cheating" I'm referring to is not looking at people's hole cards. I was thinking of when some random player raises preflop that I could reraise and my partner reraise again, then I'd fold to him. I was also thinking of both of us acting like know it all dicks to put others on tilt, *shrug* not sure if making some money is worth upsetting others and creating potential enemies though

The kind of "cheating" you are referring to doesn't require speech marks.

You can get caught because if other players suspect you are colluding they might ask to see your cards after they are mucked.

Stu_Ungar · Aug 2, 2010

appaz86 said:
i lol'd

yea OP give it a go! let us know how it goes

LOL I know, its like the guy who thinks he can heckle a comedian... it rarely turns out the way he expected. The commedian stands up in-front of a large crowd every night and tells jokes. Part of his job is to sit down and think of ways to out wit a heckler. Even so people still try.

YouTube- jimmy carr owns heckler

Joe Slick · Aug 2, 2010

Rightness or wrongness is a question of morals and ethics. It is, however, most certainly illegal. When you get caught, pray it's the casino that catches you and not the other players. The casino can only arrest and prosecute you. The other players may make an example of you to show what happens to cheaters.

The best way to make money playing poker is to become the best player you can. If you sense collusion leave the table. If you see collusion, leave the table and report it.

pat3392 · Aug 2, 2010

Ok then point taken

Is this cheating: Playing in a big tournament with a poker buddy on the same table and on the break we go of together and discuss the other players

Joe Slick · Aug 2, 2010

Sharing information away from the table would not be cheating IMHO.

Joe Slick · Aug 2, 2010

I just realized that I need to answer the question you didn't ask: Do I want to play in any tournament with a buddy on my table?

The answer is no, no, no NO! The reasons are:

1) You probably are not going to be willing to play your buddy like a stranger and push him/her out of the tournament without remorse.
2) Assuming that 1 above is true, that gives you only seven players to try and take out.
3) If you and your buddy do well it will have the perception of collusion, which is just as bad as the actual thing.
4) If you fold to your buddy's raise when you would have called anyone else that is in fact collusion.

If you ever find yourself in this situation I would strongly advise one of you to try and move to another table.

dj11 · Aug 2, 2010

pat3392 said:
Ok then point taken

Is this cheating: Playing in a big tournament with a poker buddy on the same table and on the break we go of together and discuss the other players

Keep in mind the oriental guys who are off discussing you and your buddy......in a language you can't understand.

Hate to use this, but "do unto others........"

dan · Aug 2, 2010

are you kidding you are making this up!!!!!!!!!!!

salim271 · Aug 2, 2010

pat3392 said:
Ok then point taken

Is this cheating: Playing in a big tournament with a poker buddy on the same table and on the break we go of together and discuss the other players

I'm pretty sure this would be okay, because it cannot be tracked. No doubt people who play at the wsop ME together do the same thing, you always hear about Father-son teams on ESPN, no doubt they're talking about their opponents and who to watch out for.

mosseyAJ · Aug 3, 2010

only_bridge said:
Or even worse, behind the casio, with the guards...

LOL, the casinos aren't run by the mob anymore. The big companies that own casinos now have way to much lose to get caught roughing up cheaters.

lektrikguy · Aug 3, 2010

Does this question even need to be answered???

Mortis · Aug 3, 2010

only_bridge said:
Or even worse, behind the casio, with the guards...

Casio? They have guards playing keyboards?

dantheman91 · Aug 3, 2010

Totally against it. It's unfair to the game and to the others who are playing.

LarkMarlow · Aug 3, 2010

pat3392 said:
The kind of "cheating" I'm referring to is not looking at people's hole cards. I was thinking of when some random player raises preflop that I could reraise and my partner reraise again, then I'd fold to him. I was also thinking of both of us acting like know it all dicks to put others on tilt, *shrug* not sure if making some money is worth upsetting others and creating potential enemies though

Another name for this is "team playing" and is a guaranteed way to get you banned from a poker room when (note: not if) you get caught. If there are neighboring casinos, you might be blacklisted from those rooms too.

Beyond that, you will be labelled a cheat and most poker players will ostracize you.

Finally, you'll have to live with yourself which might be the toughest punishment of all.

mig2169 · Aug 3, 2010

Just ask the mit blackjack team what do theythink. They made a ton of money but they cannot play in any casino ever again.

alaskabill · Aug 4, 2010

mig2169 said:
Just ask the mit blackjack team what do theythink. They made a ton of money but they cannot play in any casino ever again.

Huge difference between what MIT teams did and what OP is suggesting. Card counting is legal casinos just don't like it. For what some of the team members made (legally) I could live with staying out of some casinos that were unhappy with my beating their game.

What the OP is suggesting (if I understand him correctly) is cheating fellow players through a violation of the rules of poker. This is unethical and most likely illegal.

CSuave · Aug 4, 2010

First question to ask in any circumstance like this is...... how would I feel if the shoe was on the other foot and I was getting team played by two other players........... pretty simple.

Is using collusion to beat the casino games wrong?

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