What I like to call all inners and A experiment to see how many times I can do it

Silvershade · Aug 9, 2008

Hey guys

Ive been testing well more of a experiment of all in on the first hand most new or just silly player wait for a 180 360 freeroll. I have been keeping a tab of doing it myself im shooting for 50 times and im listing the cards I was dealt so you could gather more info on Full Tilts RNG or Random Number Gen. when im finished if you would like a copy post or you may E mail me [email protected]

Thanks
New Member

Dow D. O'Neal III

mregister2 · Aug 9, 2008

This sounds interesting. One thing to keep in mind with hold'em is that with four or five players all-in at once, even the strongest hand is an underdog to win.

Here's an experiment for you to illustrate this. Take a deck of cards and deal out four to five hold'em hands. Then deal a flop, turn and river. You'd be surprised how often the best starting hand doesn't win.

Double-A · Aug 9, 2008

???

mregister2 said:
This sounds interesting. One thing to keep in mind with hold'em is that with four or five players all-in at once, even the strongest hand is an underdog to win.

Here's an experiment for you to illustrate this. Take a deck of cards and deal out four to five hold'em hands. Then deal a flop, turn and river. You'd be surprised how often the best starting hand doesn't win.

If the strongest hand is an underdog to win then how is it the strongest hand???

NascarFanSS · Aug 9, 2008

Double-A said:
If the strongest hand is an underdog to win then how is it the strongest hand???

Stronger cards have a higher percentage of taking any given hand initially, but when you have 3 out of 5 calling all in on strong cards which isn't figured into the percentage I believe that gives what I would like to call donkey cards unfortunately the better odds on even just a stand alone pair.

Double-A · Aug 9, 2008

NascarFanSS said:
Stronger cards have a higher percentage of taking any given hand initially, but when you have 3 out of 5 calling all in on strong cards which isn't figured into the percentage I believe that gives what I would like to call donkey cards unfortunately the better odds on even just a stand alone pair.

Four or more callers may have more equity together than any specific two card holding but... The strongest hand is still the strongest hand, still has more equity than any other two cards, and is NOT an underdog.

Unless you're just considering every hand to be an underdog...

hornellfred · Aug 9, 2008

Double-A said:
If the strongest hand is an underdog to win then how is it the strongest hand???

The strongest "starting hand," is only the strongest until the flop comes out. Let's say you have AA and you go all-in UTG and you get 4 callers. AA is a 75% winner against any random hand. This means that all 4 callers have a 25% chance of winning the hand. You are still the favorite to win but you are less than 50%, since you have 4 with a 25% chance of winning. Obviously, the less callers the better and going all-in early in a micro or freeroll is not a good move.

neviu · Aug 9, 2008

you never whant that many callers even whit a monsterhand
preflopp so many all ins give you trouble on the flop
or luck its a gamble you take or dont

stuventus · Aug 9, 2008

He means that it is an underdog to win against all of the other hands combined. He just didnt word it well.

for example
5 starting hands AA,AT,56,JJ,28

AA is fave against AT head to head
AA is fave against 56 head to head
AA is fave against JJ head to head
AA is fave against 28 head to head

BUT

28,JJ,56 and AT combined are fave against AA

hope this clears it up - you are not playing against each hand individually - you are playing against them combined. i.e you must beat them all to take the pot.

icepick007 · Aug 9, 2008

nice experiment...i am eager to know the results.frankly speaking theres no other way to win those 180,and 360 player sng freerolls...won them a couple of times,but the level of play makes yu so sick...yu really need a huge chiplead,and need to suckout chips thereon...dats probably the only yu can win these tournies...anyone had better success at these tournies

zuberman · Aug 9, 2008

In that underdog thing, I think he says that the strongest hand is an underdog to all other hands combined. Other than that, it can be never true.

zuberman · Aug 9, 2008

sorry stuvendus. I didn't saw you've written your post. Nicely put, yours is more explanatory.

mregister2 · Aug 9, 2008

stuventus said:
He means that it is an underdog to win against all of the other hands combined. He just didnt word it well.

That is exactly what I meant.Thanks for clarifying that for me.

Silvershade · Aug 9, 2008

Deck of cards

ty I will try that with the deck I have been a ling time player and I really wanted to see for myself again if you guys want the final result E mail me or PM

Thanx
Dow

NascarFanSS · Aug 9, 2008

icepick007 said:
nice experiment...i am eager to know the results.frankly speaking theres no other way to win those 180,and 360 player sng freerolls...won them a couple of times,but the level of play makes yu so sick...yu really need a huge chiplead,and need to suckout chips thereon...dats probably the only yu can win these tournies...anyone had better success at these tournies

Silvershade and I have had great success on a nightly basis with the 180's without going all-in first hand. Who knows how many you could lose til you get that chip stack that in the beginning I thought was necessary as well.

I have been playing the 180 peep SnGs for a few months now and if I sit down with patience I can usually win 1 a night or every other night. You do not have to go all-in first hand but if you are to succeed in the long run you will be going all-in on traps and with a lil luck and some good cards final table is where the real play begins. Folding is an absolute must, the donkeys will put themselves out. I have made it to final table with 6k and gone from short stack to chip leader in 5min with smart and patient play.

Double-A · Aug 10, 2008

stuventus said:
He means that it is an underdog to win against all of the other hands combined. He just didnt word it well.

for example
5 starting hands AA,AT,56,JJ,28

AA is fave against AT head to head
AA is fave against 56 head to head
AA is fave against JJ head to head
AA is fave against 28 head to head

BUT

28,JJ,56 and AT combined are fave against AA

hope this clears it up - you are not playing against each hand individually - you are playing against them combined. i.e you must beat them all to take the pot.

EACH hand faces the combined equity of the other hands. In the example you gave AA is the strongest hand (has the most equity) no matter how you slice it.

The strongest hand is the strongest hand because it's the favorite. By definition it can't be an underdog.

Double-A · Aug 10, 2008

hornellfred said:
The strongest "starting hand," is only the strongest until the flop comes out. Let's say you have AA and you go all-in UTG and you get 4 callers. AA is a 75% winner against any random hand. This means that all 4 callers have a 25% chance of winning the hand. You are still the favorite to win but you are less than 50%, since you have 4 with a 25% chance of winning. Obviously, the less callers the better and going all-in early in a micro or freeroll is not a good move.

AA is 56% against 4 random hands. Each random hand has around an 11% chance to take down the pot. Combined the random hands have a 46% chance. AA is the favorite not the dog.

hornellfred · Aug 10, 2008

Double-A said:
AA is 56% against 4 random hands. Each random hand has around an 11% chance to take down the pot. Combined the random hands have a 46% chance. AA is the favorite not the dog.

Are Aces a 89% favorite against any random hand?

pimpinalovabkln · Aug 10, 2008

hornellfred said:
Are Aces a 89% favorite against any random hand?

Probably preflop because youve got an over pair and the only way they can win is hitting two pair or higher.

Double-A · Aug 11, 2008

hornellfred said:
Are Aces a 89% favorite against any random hand?

AA is 85% against a random hand.

sandbender · Oct 15, 2008

LOL, just got dealt AA first hand of a SNG, thought of this thread and went all-in. So TOTALLY unlike me.

Of course I got busted by a known maniac with JJ. So that's the end of my $8.80 experiment!

What I like to call all inners and A experiment to see how many times I can do it

Silvershade

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mregister2

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Double-A

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NascarFanSS

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Double-A

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hornellfred

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neviu

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stuventus

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icepick007

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zuberman

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mregister2

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Silvershade

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NascarFanSS

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Double-A

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Double-A

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hornellfred

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pimpinalovabkln

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Double-A

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sandbender

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