The Art of the Check-Raise (Day 27 Course Discussion)

Katie Dozier · Dec 10, 2020

Phyrrura said:
Everything I learn'd 'till in this course really improved my game, but this one went beyond all my tactics in poker.

Collin, you gotta start this check-raise strategy man, Katia is just in the right way. I just put this in my game today and it went tremendous effective, I can now look forward for a big improve in my profits.

That’s so awesome to hear, way to go, Phyrrura! [emoji41]

Phyrrura · Jan 12, 2021

One of the best in this course

So profitable, very nice play to extract chips from that very predictable players that you know will pay you off wherever he hits a top pair.

Katie Dozier · Jan 13, 2021

Phyrrura said:
So profitable, very nice play to extract chips from that very predictable players that you know will pay you off wherever he hits a top pair.

Very true, plus it’s fun haha [emoji4]

P1R35 · Jan 19, 2021

Hi Collin,
How you approach check/raising vs early position on less coordinated flops ?

Example:

UTG open 2,5bb (50bb) we defend BB with 6c3c.
Flop Kd4c2c, we checked, UTG Cbets 33%
Hero

Do we have a check/raising range here?
What hands? 44/22/K2s/K4s? 53s ?

Or we check/call only (because its kind of dry texture) and then start to check/raise turns?

Collin Moshman · Jan 19, 2021

P1R35 said:
Hi Collin,
How you approach check/raising vs early position on less coordinated flops ?

Example:

UTG open 2,5bb (50bb) we defend BB with 6c3c.
Flop Kd4c2c, we checked, UTG Cbets 33%
Hero

Do we have a check/raising range here?
What hands? 44/22/K2s/K4s? 53s ?

Or we check/call only (because its kind of dry texture) and then start to check/raise turns?

Good question.

We should be check-raising less frequently in these spots because our opponent will be on a tighter range weighted a lot more toward AK/KQ/KJs/KK+ compared to a later position open.

So generally what I would do here is check-shove if stacks were good for that, and check-call if deeper (bluffing most rivers if I've missed and the turn gets checked through).

P1R35 · Jan 19, 2021

OK, so in the example I gave.
1. What would you do after XC strong hands (like sets/2pair) ?
You XR them on the turn and add some draws that arent good enought to XC( like 63s, 98s) ?

2. How wet the board need to be to you to start have XR range?
If not K42tt, mayby K97tt or KT8tt ?

Rabberto71 · Jan 19, 2021

I love the check raise although other table goings on need to be taken into consideration, but if used correctly can scare most off

el_soma77 · Jan 19, 2021

P1R35 said:
Hi Collin,
How you approach check/raising vs early position on less coordinated flops ?

Example:

UTG open 2,5bb (50bb) we defend BB with 6c3c.
Flop Kd4c2c, we checked, UTG Cbets 33%
Hero

Do we have a check/raising range here?
What hands? 44/22/K2s/K4s? 53s ?

Or we check/call only (because its kind of dry texture) and then start to check/raise turns?

Here we must re-raise, we can win the hand without having to go all in or until the fifth community card.

"Luck comes and goes, but knowledge remains forever."

el_soma77 · Jan 19, 2021

very good course, I am going to study it and detail it and read it with great patience.

"Luck comes and goes, but knowledge remains forever."

Katie Dozier · Jan 20, 2021

el_soma77 said:
very good course, I am going to study it and detail it and read it with great patience.

"Luck comes and goes, but knowledge remains forever."

Awesome to hear, thanks and that’s a great quotation!

Collin Moshman · Jan 21, 2021

P1R35 said:
OK, so in the example I gave.
1. What would you do after XC strong hands (like sets/2pair) ?
You XR them on the turn and add some draws that arent good enought to XC( like 63s, 98s) ?

2. How wet the board need to be to you to start have XR range?
If not K42tt, mayby K97tt or KT8tt ?

1. Usually check/call. Then on river check-raise if deep enough and we still want to get it in.

2. Sure some is fine, by JT8ss check-raising more, but these aren't exact answers. It just comes down to your opponent. How strong are they likely to be? What's my range here? What would I be doing with draws? How observant is my opponent? Does it matter if I'm only check-raising strong hands here?

SeniorTurtle · Jan 25, 2021

quiz question

In the quiz you advocate check-raising and then shoving with QJs. Would it be a big mistake to check-raise to 300-400 and then shove on the turn?

birdman666 · Jan 25, 2021

Last paragraph on the ebook chapter:

"This play would be most common when your opponent has been betting the whole way, and
you make a strong and disguised hand on the river. You check to let him bet again, and then
raise for value. For example, if you’ve called the ﬂop and turn with JJ on a queen-high
board and river a jack, you would usually check-raise rather than bet out since it’s likely your
opponent will bet a third time if given the opportunity. If the hand you hit puts four cards to a
straight or ﬂush on board, however, just bet yourself as too ofen your opponent will shut down."

I didn't understand what you mean here with "shut down". Does it mean he calls and gets beaten, or he folds?

Katie Dozier · Jan 26, 2021

SeniorTurtle said:
In the quiz you advocate check-raising and then shoving with QJs. Would it be a big mistake to check-raise to 300-400 and then shove on the turn?

Yes, it would certainly be reasonable to check-raise a bit smaller than 420 in that spot if you prefer

Katie Dozier · Jan 26, 2021

birdman666 said:
Last paragraph on the ebook chapter:

"This play would be most common when your opponent has been betting the whole way, and
you make a strong and disguised hand on the river. You check to let him bet again, and then
raise for value. For example, if you’ve called the ﬂop and turn with JJ on a queen-high
board and river a jack, you would usually check-raise rather than bet out since it’s likely your
opponent will bet a third time if given the opportunity. If the hand you hit puts four cards to a
straight or ﬂush on board, however, just bet yourself as too ofen your opponent will shut down."

I didn't understand what you mean here with "shut down". Does it mean he calls and gets beaten, or he folds?

In that context, “shut down” means that your opponent would check behind if you checked to him on the coordinated board.

We don’t know if he’ll call when we bet, but the important thing is to bet ourselves when we want value and our opponent is very likely to check should we give him the option, because that is our best chance of getting more money in the pot. Hope this helps [emoji4]

birdman666 · Feb 15, 2021

Katie Dozier said:
In that context, “shut down” means that your opponent would check behind if you checked to him on the coordinated board.

We don’t know if he’ll call when we bet, but the important thing is to bet ourselves when we want value and our opponent is very likely to check should we give him the option, because that is our best chance of getting more money in the pot. Hope this helps [emoji4]

Do they call a lot without the straight in these situations?

Collin Moshman · Feb 16, 2021

birdman666 said:
Do they call a lot without the straight in these situations?

Fairly often, yes.

Most players who are in position; have a decent made hand; and get a scary river; will check back if checked to. Facing a bet, they will sometimes fold, but often call reasoning that they're beating a bluff.

imnoobpoker · Feb 28, 2021

Thank you for explaining the Check-Raise method. Never used it, but will give it a try in some situations. Thank you! Let's go to day 28.

Collin Moshman · Mar 2, 2021

imnoobpoker said:
Thank you for explaining the Check-Raise method. Never used it, but will give it a try in some situations. Thank you! Let's go to day 28.

Great, it really helps making you tougher to play against when out of position. Nice work and gl on day 28!

Haze777s · Mar 2, 2021

A check raise is usually considered a sign of a strong hand

Pokerpoet2 · Mar 2, 2021

A check raise during a hand is usually a sign of a good hand and that is what you want your opponents to believe, but you have to be careful because in some circumstances the Villain will re-raise or shove all-in over you, so then you have to decide whether to call or fold.
I have used this tactic to win a hand with air if I believe the other player is bluffing, But I would avoid trying it with 2 or 3 opponents left to act as one of them has possibly hit on the flop, and some players will call any bet with a single pair.
This is one reason a player in a live game will ask an opponent how many chips he has left before making a bet to instill fear in them that a raise is coming, and of course if you bet enough to put them all-in, the decision is then theirs to make on whether you are holding the nuts or just bluffing at them?
Poker is a cruel but fun game when this happens.

When the fun Stops, STOP!

SharKyg1n · Mar 2, 2021

thanks for what you are doing very informative

schtiuky · Mar 2, 2021

Thanks for the info

xOneCoolHandx · Mar 9, 2021

Quiz

Great spot to check raise shove with the straight draw with backdoor flush draw and little showdown value.

barbados · Jan 29, 2022

Not a bad tactic that has the right to life. However, it should be remembered that there is an antidote against any poison. And don't get carried away with overly favorite tactics. You should always keep an arsenal of various tactics ready for the sake of strategic advantage.

The Art of the Check-Raise (Day 27 Course Discussion)

Katie Dozier

Poker Expert

Phyrrura

Rock Star

Katie Dozier

Poker Expert

P1R35

Enthusiast

Collin Moshman

Poker Expert

P1R35

Enthusiast

Rabberto71

Rock Star

el_soma77

Visionary

el_soma77

Visionary

Katie Dozier

Poker Expert

Collin Moshman

Poker Expert

SeniorTurtle

Rising Star

birdman666

Enthusiast

Katie Dozier

Poker Expert

Katie Dozier

Poker Expert

birdman666

Enthusiast

Collin Moshman

Poker Expert

imnoobpoker

Rock Star

Collin Moshman

Poker Expert

Haze777s

Rock Star

Pokerpoet2

Legend

SharKyg1n

Enthusiast

schtiuky

Visionary

xOneCoolHandx

Legend

barbados

Legend

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