Is it also difficult for you to let go after a certain level of investment? 🤔

JhonnyThe357

JhonnyThe357

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  • #1
I don't know if it only happens to me, but one of the hardest things in poker is folding a hand that I know I'm probably losing.

That classic situation: you bet, get raised on the river, and deep down you're already thinking, "That's it, I'm beaten."

But then you start looking for a reason to call.

"What if he's bluffing..."
"What if he's trying to take me out of the pot..."
"After getting this far, I'm not going to fold..."

Five seconds later you call and see exactly the hand you imagined. 😂

I have the impression that saving chips with good folds is as important a skill as winning chips with good hands.

Do you also have difficulty pressing the fold button after investing so much in a pot? 😔🤔
 
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fundiver199

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  • #2
This is something, all poker players struggle with, and it takes a lot of practice to overcome. Its a deep human instinct, because we were betting for value, which mean, we expected to win the hand, but now suddenly we need to cope with the idea, we are likely to lose. So its like the cave man running from the sabel tiger, and the instinct is something like "f... this game, I know, I am beat, but I call".

I will say however, that we also dont want to fall into the opposite trap and fold to much to players, who either bluff or overplay their hands. Even if we are facing a pot sized bet or raise (getting 2:1), we only need to win 1 out of 3 times to make a profitable call in a cash game or early in an MTT (chip EV). So its not like, its automatically a mistake, if we call and lose.

But it is important to know, when we have a bluff catcher, and this is often the case, when we get raised on the river. So in those situations we should always at least think the situation through before pressing the "call" button. Thats what the time bank is for. This mean we look at things like board texture, previous action and opponent tendencies to figure out, how likely they are to be bluffing. And we also look at blockers to see, if we block more of their value range or their bluffs. This sometimes get way to much attention, but if a decision is close, it is reasonable to let this be the deciding factor. If for instance the final board is :ks4::jc4::4s4::6d4::2s4:, it is better to call a raise with :kh4::js4: than :kh4::jh4:, because then the opponent can not have :as4::js4:, :qs4::js4:, :js4::10s4: or :js4::9s4:, which are some of the hands,that might raise the river for value. It can also be helpfull to think about, what you are going to do against a raise before betting for value, and to verbalise this to yourself. Like maybe you have :ah4::kh4: on the same :ks4::jc4::4s4::6d4::2s4: board and decide, that you want to go for thin value, even though the flushdraw completed. And then you say to yourself "I am going to bet-fold". Then, if the raise happen, you are much more prepared for this mentally, and its much easier to carry out the decision, you already made before betting in the first place.
 
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bronwen777

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  • #3
JhonnyThe357 said:
I don't know if it only happens to me, but one of the hardest things in poker is folding a hand that I know I'm probably losing.

That classic situation: you bet, get raised on the river, and deep down you're already thinking, "That's it, I'm beaten."

But then you start looking for a reason to call.

"What if he's bluffing..."
"What if he's trying to take me out of the pot..."
"After getting this far, I'm not going to fold..."

Five seconds later you call and see exactly the hand you imagined. 😂

I have the impression that saving chips with good folds is as important a skill as winning chips with good hands.

Do you also have difficulty pressing the fold button after investing so much in a pot? 😔🤔
yeah, I have the same problem. 😥 lets say you have a potential straight, and before the river card is dealt, the oponent is going all in already. and all you need is an ace or a nine for example. I struggle to fold those. 🤕 similarly when chasing a an A high flush for example. i feel committed to the pot by that time.. so i call. sometimes it pays off but sometimes it doesnt. the problem is that it can happen a lot.. what i have learnt to say no to, is at least if Im 2 cards away on the flop and the oponent bets, I fold. If Im 1 card away, Ill string along... maybe just need to say no after the turn card.. but like you say, you're committed at this point. might be half a stack down at that point. Maybe some experts on here can tell us what we should be doing.? To be fair tho, if I have 77, and the flop is A59 for example. Ill let go of my 7's immediatly. but if I make a set with say AK7, Im all in.
 
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  • #4
fundiver199 said:
This is something, all poker players struggle with, and it takes a lot of practice to overcome. Its a deep human instinct, because we were betting for value, which mean, we expected to win the hand, but now suddenly we need to cope with the idea, we are likely to lose. So its like the cave man running from the sabel tiger, and the instinct is something like "f... this game, I know, I am beat, but I call".

I will say however, that we also dont want to fall into the opposite trap and fold to much to players, who either bluff or overplay their hands. Even if we are facing a pot sized bet or raise (getting 2:1), we only need to win 1 out of 3 times to make a profitable call in a cash game or early in an MTT (chip EV). So its not like, its automatically a mistake, if we call and lose.

But it is important to know, when we have a bluff catcher, and this is often the case, when we get raised on the river. So in those situations we should always at least think the situation through before pressing the "call" button. Thats what the time bank is for. This mean we look at things like board texture, previous action and opponent tendencies to figure out, how likely they are to be bluffing. And we also look at blockers to see, if we block more of their value range or their bluffs. This sometimes get way to much attention, but if a decision is close, it is reasonable to let this be the deciding factor. If for instance the final board is :ks4::jc4::4s4::6d4::2s4:, it is better to call a raise with :kh4::js4: than :kh4::jh4:, because then the opponent can not have :como4::js4:, :qs4::js4:, :js4::10s4: or :js4::9s4:, which are some of the hands,that might raise the river for value. It can also be helpfull to think about, what you are going to do against a raise before betting for value, and to verbalise this to yourself. Like maybe you have :ah4::kh4: on the same :ks4::jc4::4s4::6d4::2s4: board and decide, that you want to go for thin value, even though the flushdraw completed. And then you say to yourself "I am going to bet-fold". Then, if the raise happen, you are much more prepared for this mentally, and its much easier to carry out the decision, you already made before betting in the first place.
Great analysis!
👏🏻👏🏻
 
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JhonnyThe357

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  • #5
bronwen777 said:
yeah, I have the same problem. 😥 lets say you have a potential straight, and before the river card is dealt, the oponent is going all in already. and all you need is an ace or a nine for example. I struggle to fold those. 🤕 similarly when chasing a an A high flush for example. i feel committed to the pot by that time.. so i call. sometimes it pays off but sometimes it doesnt. the problem is that it can happen a lot.. what i have learnt to say no to, is at least if Im 2 cards away on the flop and the oponent bets, I fold. If Im 1 card away, Ill string along... maybe just need to say no after the turn card.. but like you say, you're committed at this point. might be half a stack down at that point. Maybe some experts on here can tell us what we should be doing.? To be fair tho, if I have 77, and the flop is A59 for example. Ill let go of my 7's immediatly. but if I make a set with say AK7, Im all in.
Ah, with a 7 on the flop, plus my pocket pair of 7s, I'm going all the way!
 
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ne0npipe

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  • #6
Absolutely. I struggle with it too. Even when I know I'm probably beat, I find myself hovering over the call button. The discipline to fold in those spots is yet another skill I'm still working on. Hopefully we get better at it over time.
 
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frnandoh

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  • #7
Do you play for fun or for being profitable???

If you play for fun, satisfy your own emotions and be happy. If you
play for being profitable, swallow your saliva and do what have to be done.
If you be happy making good decisions, be profitable and be happy.

relaxamento.jpg
 
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JhonnyThe357

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  • #8
ne0npipe said:
Absolutely. I struggle with it too. Even when I know I'm probably beat, I find myself hovering over the call button. The discipline to fold in those spots is yet another skill I'm still working on. Hopefully we get better at it over time.
I believe it's part of the learning process, and inevitably over time we improve this aspect.
Everyone learns at their own pace.:)
 
JhonnyThe357

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  • #9
frnandoh said:
Do you play for fun or for being profitable???

If you play for fun, satisfy your own emotions and be happy. If you
play for being profitable, swallow your saliva and do what have to be done.
If you be happy making good decisions, be profitable and be happy.

relaxamento.jpg
Honestly, I’ve always seen it more as fun than as actual profit; in fact, if I had to rely on poker to survive, I would have been dead quite a while ago. I’d even go as far as to say that the vast majority of players, recreational or not, lose more than they win in poker.
Obviously, the goal is always to combine pleasure with profit!🤑🤑
 
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