Cardschat is certainly a plethora of information and most questions will usually receive answers. But when you are asking a question such as this it is often good to provide a bit more information.
For example, what was the position of the initial raiser? How big was the raise? From what position was the flat call made? How big were the stacks/blinds? Was it a tournament or a cash game? These are all important question since there is no 'one size fits all' answer.
For example, what was the position of the initial raiser? How big was the raise? From what position was the flat call made? How big were the stacks/blinds? Was it a tournament or a cash game? These are all important question since there is no 'one size fits all' answer.
there isn't a ton of information but, in general, it would depend what position the original raiser is and how they're playing.
if it's utg and they're a tight player, i'd rather flat call and play post flop.
if the raiser is in late position like the co or btn and they're opening a lot from late position, i'd lean more towards 3betting as a squeeze play. i'm not really concerned about the other flat caller, unless they're just super nitty and flats with jj-qq. so, i likely have the range advantage over the flat caller and potentially the opener, but i want to isolate with the initial raiser and go heads up as my range advantage is much better against 1 opponent vs multiple.
by squeezing, i give myself better odds to win the pot. either by all players folding or isolating and seeing a flop with better equity. and even if i still get 2 callers, i'm probably still slightly ahead. at worse, i get 4 bet and i have to decide what to do. or i see a bad flop and have to check/fold vs 2 other players, but i still allow myself multiple ways to win the pot, either uncontested or by having the better hand by the river, which is an advantage i wouldn't have if i just flat.
if it's utg and they're a tight player, i'd rather flat call and play post flop.
if the raiser is in late position like the co or btn and they're opening a lot from late position, i'd lean more towards 3betting as a squeeze play. i'm not really concerned about the other flat caller, unless they're just super nitty and flats with jj-qq. so, i likely have the range advantage over the flat caller and potentially the opener, but i want to isolate with the initial raiser and go heads up as my range advantage is much better against 1 opponent vs multiple.
by squeezing, i give myself better odds to win the pot. either by all players folding or isolating and seeing a flop with better equity. and even if i still get 2 callers, i'm probably still slightly ahead. at worse, i get 4 bet and i have to decide what to do. or i see a bad flop and have to check/fold vs 2 other players, but i still allow myself multiple ways to win the pot, either uncontested or by having the better hand by the river, which is an advantage i wouldn't have if i just flat.
Last edited:
nikospov1 said:
If the raise came from EP and another player cold called, you could set mine depending on the initial raise size and how deep stacks are. Raising here would not be a wise decision as you would need to assume that EP has QQ+, AJs+, AQo+ is a majority of his range and has you dominated, and at best you are a coin flip.
I would only raise (squeeze) if that initial raiser came from at least from LJ to CO and button cold calling.
Too many variables and unknown information for a clear cut answer.
Dhendrixon said:
I agree in general with what you’ve said here, Dhendrixon—though I would personally include more pocket pairs in EP’s opening range (likely 99+ in the event that we have a read that the player is on the tight side).
I like to think of spots like these as “mostly set mining” because I wouldn’t play a sizable pot even if I had an overpair to the flop, but I’m also not going to fold TT on a flop of 853r to just a c-bet. In those spots we’d be looking for pot control mainly as our hand would become the type that could win a smallish pot but would almost certainly be losing in a large, multi-way one.
nikospov1 said:
Thank U 4 Posting.
Other members have mentioned many points about information that is important to this discussion.
All of their points are referring to putting your Villain's on an estimated range.
We all when starting out have to learn to be more concise. The other members mention many of the data points that will help you better dissect these spots.
So when you say "I know I am probably ahead" it means that your thinking is not concise enough now after the fact, which means it is certainly not concise enough in game.
So to become a stronger player we review hands by thinking about each villain's range and express it as a range and we use all the data points the others mention to do so.
Here is an example of expressing your question in terms of estimated ranges.
V 1 makes large opening raise V1 does this with JJ-22 AX and suited KJ+ Q10+ etc
So with this range we are ahead of enough of V's range.
Second possiblility
V1 is tight and makes large raises to protect big hands knowing V2 calls wider and has position on V1 then the V1 range could be- AA KK QQ JJ 1010 AK AQ
Versus that second range we are always just set mining which means we never reraise and we never get all-in vs V1 post flop if V1 tries to put us all-in when we have just one pair.
Hope this helps
🙂🙂
Like others have said, the answer depends a lot on factors like positions and stack depth. With that said ... I'd reraising here most of the time 🙂
Players who call a raise tend to be on weaker ranges so the flat-caller will often be dead money. So if there's a large-ish raise and call, with blinds and antes the pot may be around 10bb. This makes it reasonable to jam at least a 40bb stack.
The main time I would just call would be if the initial raiser is in early position (or a very tight player in later position) and stacks are deep.
Players who call a raise tend to be on weaker ranges so the flat-caller will often be dead money. So if there's a large-ish raise and call, with blinds and antes the pot may be around 10bb. This makes it reasonable to jam at least a 40bb stack.
The main time I would just call would be if the initial raiser is in early position (or a very tight player in later position) and stacks are deep.
Like others said, it depends on the situation and the stacks involved. I think most times I am set mining here, but I am also willing to raise a player that likes to open the action consistently. Although I might flat if they show a tendency to c-bet and fold to a raise.
If the raiser is in late position and I feel they are stealing, I will likely re-raise.
If the raiser is in late position and I feel they are stealing, I will likely re-raise.