The Suited Connector Trap: Are they actually profitable for you?

Nameless14

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  • #1
Do you actually make money playing hands like 7-8 suited and 9-10 suited, or do you find yourself constantly burning chips trying to chase draws that never hit? 🤔😅
 
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  • #2
Suited connectors are tempting, but I think they can become a trap if you play them too often. 😅
They’re profitable in the right spots, especially with position and good implied odds, but not worth forcing every time.
 
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fzap1983

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  • #3
From a probabilistic point of view, you lose more often than you win, so I think it's better to fold rather than risk your money, because in the long run, you'll end up losing money.
 
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Jillychemung

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  • #4
For a beginning player, SCs should not be in your range. As you get more experience they can be added in spots. If I have been card dead for a while I can open in UTG & UTG+1 with them based on how the table has been playing and I'll squeeze/steal with them from the blinds. For example, I haven't played a hand for a couple of orbits ($200NLH live cash). There are 6 limps before me in the BB and I look down at T9s, I'll raise to $27 or $32. Most times I get all folds but if someone does call, I'm pretty confident I can play well post-flop.
 
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These are equity hands, or what we call a speculative hand, so we want to play them in position so that we have more options. If we play them out of position and whiff the flop, it's almost always a check fold. Flopping say a gut is difficult out of position because of the sizings that we will see from the c-bets. Flopping 8 outs or more is maybe not so bad. Defending from the blinds is an option but again, we will be out of position. We are not likely to have anything of solid value at least until the turn so play these less against splashy Villains which could make each street expensive.
 
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lolpeura

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  • #6
If you are an high stack on the table (top 1-2), as long as you can reasonably enter the pot always do with suited connectors. It has tremendous potential.
 
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hoachec

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  • #7
most get caught up and lose when they can't get out to the lobby
 
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  • #8
Nameless14 said:
Do you actually make money playing hands like 7-8 suited and 9-10 suited, or do you find yourself constantly burning chips trying to chase draws that never hit? 🤔😅
I've recently started to add this kind of hands on my range. They have pretty good equity to see the flop, but is important to understand different flop scenarios.
 
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eetenor

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  • #9
Nameless14 said:
Do you actually make money playing hands like 7-8 suited and 9-10 suited, or do you find yourself constantly burning chips trying to chase draws that never hit? 🤔😅
Your statement implies that you are only trying to win when you hit. You need to win pots without hitting if you are going to play connected suited hands. If the games you play in are always going to showdown, then you have to have the correct equity to continue on the turn. If your V bets large enough on turn you must fold the hand.
If your games are showdown games your study spot is to calculate correct direct turn equity then add in a realistic Implied odds estimate. to decide call or fold.

:unsure::geek:
 
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Nameless14

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  • #10
Jillychemung said:
For a beginning player, SCs should not be in your range. As you get more experience they can be added in spots. If I have been card dead for a while I can open in UTG & UTG+1 with them based on how the table has been playing and I'll squeeze/steal with them from the blinds. For example, I haven't played a hand for a couple of orbits ($200NLH live cash). There are 6 limps before me in the BB and I look down at T9s, I'll raise to $27 or $32. Most times I get all folds but if someone does call, I'm pretty confident I can play well post-flop.
That's correct. I personally prefer playing suited connectors as a situational hand rather than playing them for show as they tend to look 😅. T9s example makes sense as after being card dead and seeing so many limpers, it's good to put pressure on them if you're willing to play post-flop. Experience is probably the main thing you need to know when the situation is worth it and when you're just wasting chips trying to chase a draw. 😅
 
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Nameless14

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  • #11
Semprini said:
These are equity hands, or what we call a speculative hand, so we want to play them in position so that we have more options. If we play them out of position and whiff the flop, it's almost always a check fold. Flopping say a gut is difficult out of position because of the sizings that we will see from the c-bets. Flopping 8 outs or more is maybe not so bad. Defending from the blinds is an option but again, we will be out of position. We are not likely to have anything of solid value at least until the turn so play these less against splashy Villains which could make each street expensive.
That's a good point, I agree with your position point. Suited connectors are much more playable in position where you can control the pot size and get your equity to come up on the board. Out of position, missing the flop and getting a big c-bet can put you in a lot of difficult spots quite quickly 😅 I think against showy players, I can see the "speculative" hands being a very expensive chase to try and catch. It almost seems that patience is a virtue here to let your draws come.
 
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  • #12
eetenor said:
Your statement implies that you are only trying to win when you hit. You need to win pots without hitting if you are going to play connected suited hands. If the games you play in are always going to showdown, then you have to have the correct equity to continue on the turn. If your V bets large enough on turn you must fold the hand.
If your games are showdown games your study spot is to calculate correct direct turn equity then add in a realistic Implied odds estimate. to decide call or fold.

:unsure::geek:
Well said. I was going to say that I think about suited connectors too much in terms of "hit the draw or give up" 😅
the part about winning pots without connecting is right up my alley - you have to be able to apply pressure and take it down at times. I like what you said about calculating turn equity and implied odds instead of just calling because you have a draw. Something i need to study more on. 🤓
 
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  • #13
Nameless14 said:
Well said. I was going to say that I think about suited connectors too much in terms of "hit the draw or give up" 😅
the part about winning pots without connecting is right up my alley - you have to be able to apply pressure and take it down at times. I like what you said about calculating turn equity and implied odds instead of just calling because you have a draw. Something i need to study more on. 🤓

Now try combining my comment with eetenor's. If we play 75s and flop say, a flush draw and back door straight, if we are out of position, we either check and hope that Villain doesn't bet or c-bet large, or we blocker bet it, in which case we don't get a great read if he flats (although we do get the next street at our own price).

However, if we are in position, usually Villain will check and WE can c-bet. ; ) If he folds, great, we win with a 7-high. If he calls, then we whiff the turn, and barrel. Repeat the process.

Here, we reach a branch in the tree. We are either going to hit our flush or not.

If we hit the flush, he bets, we flat and almost always win. He checks, we bet value, he probably folds. That's okay because he already paid us on the previous 2 streets.

If the river busts all draws (including ours) and he checks, we barrel, and it's quite likely that he folds, because he was also chasing a draw. ; ) Now sometimes he'll call and we will lose, but even staunch calling stations will fold a river if they chase a draw and bust. This is a common exploitative tactic (especially against players who limp-call with high frequency). This is what Negreanu is talking about when he says, "If we bust on the river we can turn our aggression into a bluff." It is certainly not risk free (no bluff ever is), but it can be an extremely successful tactic, especially with deep stacks that are fully playable and can absorb a 10-20bb bad luck loss.

See, this is a pot that we win WITHOUT HITTING, but it is much easier to do IN POSITION. ; )
 
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  • #14
There is also the implied value for future hands : if someone sees you showdown 78s, 910s, etc., you are more likely to get calls for your big hands in the future. Even if a semi-bluff, semi-bluff, bluff gets called, there is some value for future hands to be called. If people think you only raise/call raises with big hands you will have problems getting paid off for your big hands.
 
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Nameless14

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  • #15
Semprini said:
Now try combining my comment with eetenor's. If we play 75s and flop say, a flush draw and back door straight, if we are out of position, we either check and hope that Villain doesn't bet or c-bet large, or we blocker bet it, in which case we don't get a great read if he flats (although we do get the next street at our own price).

However, if we are in position, usually Villain will check and WE can c-bet. ; ) If he folds, great, we win with a 7-high. If he calls, then we whiff the turn, and barrel. Repeat the process.

Here, we reach a branch in the tree. We are either going to hit our flush or not.

If we hit the flush, he bets, we flat and almost always win. He checks, we bet value, he probably folds. That's okay because he already paid us on the previous 2 streets.

If the river busts all draws (including ours) and he checks, we barrel, and it's quite likely that he folds, because he was also chasing a draw. ; ) Now sometimes he'll call and we will lose, but even staunch calling stations will fold a river if they chase a draw and bust. This is a common exploitative tactic (especially against players who limp-call with high frequency). This is what Negreanu is talking about when he says, "If we bust on the river we can turn our aggression into a bluff." It is certainly not risk free (no bluff ever is), but it can be an extremely successful tactic, especially with deep stacks that are fully playable and can absorb a 10-20bb bad luck loss.

See, this is a pot that we win WITHOUT HITTING, but it is much easier to do IN POSITION. ; )
Yes, that's a good way to think about it. Thinking in terms of multiple ways to win the pot is much better than only having your draw as a way to win. I like it!

Especially in position, you're able to apply pressure when villain shows weakness and make your missed draws into bluffs on the river. Also, that point about villain chasing and missing is very good as well. Sometimes you have more fold equity with your 7 high than showdown value 😂

I think it's a great way to think about suited connectors, not as draws to a flush, but as ways to utilize position and win pots on later streets
 
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