Exposing foul play in online cash games

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Mr.Ram

Mr.Ram

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Sad news from the high-stakes cash game community: over ten (and possibly even more) regulars were scammed out of several million dollars across GG, ACR, and Coin.
A cheater—or more likely, a group of cheaters—somehow managed to install spyware on the computers of numerous regulars, gaining access to their screens. The scammer was clever enough to avoid immediate detection and spent months targeting specific regulars who had installed the Trojan.
In the end, he was finally unmasked—after all, greed occasionally caused him to slip up. Furthermore, his results were so exceptional that people began investigating; they discovered a pattern showing that he had won all his money from specific regulars and played over 90% of his hands against them—meaning he was deliberately table-selecting them—and eventually, the Trojan itself was discovered. The Trojan was almost certainly distributed via some form of poker software—likely through multiple channels, such as a tracker or a table-arrangement tool—and also pushed via phishing emails; basically, they were attacking on all fronts.
It seems to have been installed via "Intuitive Tables" , though it could have been other programs (possibly even through collusion with the developers).

The Trojan itself is named "Mesh Agent" (you can check your system for the process or traces of it).
Screenshots show the cheater's main screen names on ACR, their real identity on GG (along with the hand that gave them away), and more.
 

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Link to the original post? Is this from Twitter or 2+2?

And what about that hand? I dont see anything suspicious. Just a massive cooler. Or u think he can only overbet jam with a flush there?
 
Sunz of Beaches said:
And what about that hand? I dont see anything suspicious. Just a massive cooler. Or u think he can only overbet jam with a flush there?
Its definitely an unusual line to not 4-bet KK preflop, but then overbet both turn and river with top set, when the opponent can have both a flush and straight (AJ, J9). As with Mike Postle a single hand is no proof in itself. But if he make decisions like this hand after hand, and never jam into a better hand in similar spots, its definitely a sign of him having information. Its not the first time, cheating like this has happened. Doug Polk got a refund from PokerStars, and a danish pro went to jail for it. He broke into peoples hotel rooms during a live tournament to install the spy software on their laptops.
 
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fundiver199 said:
Its definitely an unusual line to not 4-bet KK preflop, when the opponent happen to have AA, but then overbet both turn and river with top set, when the opponent can have both a flush and straight (AJ, J9) but "coincidentally" happen to have a worse hand, that might pay.
Its a bit unusual yes but its not the first time i see people only calling kk on higher limits to such action.

And i mean if he knows his opponent has AA wouldn't it make more sense to bet river small instead of overbetting and represent exactly a hand AA could get away from on that scary board? On the other hand yes kind of u usual he is not concerned and just ships it out of position hmm. Lot is possible maybe he had a read, they got history or some other reason. I expected a lot more when OP stated Screenshot shows "hand that gave it away."
fundiver199 said:
As with Mike Postle a single hand is no proof in itself, but if he make decisions like this hand after hand, and never jam into a better hand in similar spots, its definitely a sign of him having information.
Yes exactly totally agree.
 
Sunz of Beaches said:
Its a bit unusual yes but its not the first time i see people only calling kk on higher limits to such action.
Sure. But it is quite lucky for him, that he managed to slowplay, when he had the second nuts but was behind, and then also managed to play very fast, when he had a medium strong hand, that was ahead, all in the same hand. A similar Postle hand, that comes to mind, is one, where he river a J high flush on a paired 4-card flush board in a 3-bet pot. This is usually not a hand, that is strong enough to bet for value, since it loses to both boats and a Q, K or A high flush. But his opponent happened to have trips, so Postle instantly put out a value bet without even thinking about it.
Sunz of Beaches said:
And i mean if he knows his opponent has AA wouldn't it make more sense to bet river small instead of overbetting and represent exactly a hand AA could get away from on that scary board?
Perhaps AA with A of spades is a hand, that is supposed to call down in GTO, when it check back the flop, because it block both the nut flush and AJ? And if you know that, and also know, that your opponent play GTO, then it makes sense to go for max value. History and dynamics might also play a role. Postle got known for making huge bluffs, and this also allowed him to get paid in situations, where other players would not get paid, because people made big hero calls against him specifically.
Sunz of Beaches said:
On the other hand yes kind of u usual he is not concerned and just ships it out of position hmm. Lot is possible maybe he had a read, they got history or some other reason. I expected a lot more when OP stated Screenshot shows "hand that gave it away."
Yeah its definitely not this hand in isolation, that "gave it away". Its nowhere near as crazy as the Postle hand, where Veronica had finally seen enough and choose to blow the whistle. In that hand Postle folded top pair with a gutshot to a normal turn bet after calling a normal flop bet in a single raised pot. This is a situation, where basically everyone would call again and then maybe fold to a big river bet unimproved.

But Postle was drawing nearly dead to a made straight, so he made yet another "perfect read" and folded top pair with a draw on the turn. That hand is itself was so far out, that one can say, its highly unlikely (but still not impossible), someone would play that way without knowing their opponents cards. Whereas when we see this hand in isolation, its certainly possible, that KK might play this way now and then without having information.
 
I am not agree with you! I love to play cash also tournament in highstakes poker. But now my account is banned for multiple accounts 😭
 
Sunz of Beaches said:
Link to the original post? Is this from Twitter or 2+2?

And what about that hand? I dont see anything suspicious. Just a massive cooler. Or u think he can only overbet jam with a flush there?
This information comes from poker Telegram groups, so I can't cite the exact original source. But believe me, it's not just fake news.
 

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Pavelmiyah said:
I am not agree with you! I love to play cash also tournament in highstakes poker. But now my account is banned for multiple accounts 😭
This is not about highstakes poker. And its not about agree or disagree. This happened and OP simply reposted it.
 
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Sunz of Beaches said:
This is not about highstakes poker. And its not about agree or disagree. This happened and OP simply reposted it.
The fact is that the system is vulnerable. This means that, in such a situation, the poker room's security team cannot guarantee fair play. To protect yourself, you should avoid installing poker-related software on the computer you use for playing. You should also be wary of emails that appear to come from a fake support service.
 
Mr.Ram said:
To protect yourself, you should avoid installing poker-related software on the computer you use for playing.
Thats not super practical, because then you need to have a second computer for studying, and your hand histories will be on the one, you use for playing. You can also just avoid high stakes cash games. If you play tournaments or play in a large cash game pool like those for lower stakes on PokerStars and GG Poker, its much more difficult for anyone to target you specifically.
 
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Also the software carrying the malicious agent was apparently table management software, and how many in this forum had even heard about this kind of software before let alone considered using it? Dont see any reason, why we should now all be worried, that our PT4, ICMizer and similar common tools are infected with spy software. Might also be, that the software had to be running while playing, which is not allowed with any kind of study programs like ICMizer, Equilab, solvers etc.
 
Mr.Ram said:
The fact is that the system is vulnerable. This means that, in such a situation, the poker room's security team cannot guarantee fair play. To protect yourself, you should avoid installing poker-related software on the computer you use for playing. You should also be wary of emails that appear to come from a fake support service.
Tbf anyone playing at the high stakes level should use some common sense and a bit of brain power for something besides just studying poker and should have a computer ONLY FOR POKER AND NOTHING ELSE. The only thing that should be on that computer besides the poker site download is Poker Tracker 4 or Holdem Manager 3 or 4. They've both been around forever and are clean, trojan and virus free software.

Cheers!!!
 
fundiver199 said:
Also the software carrying the malicious agent was apparently table management software, and how many in this forum had even heard about this kind of software before let alone considered using it? Dont see any reason, why we should now all be worried, that our PT4, ICMizer and similar common tools are infected with spy software. Might also be, that the software had to be running while playing, which is not allowed with any kind of study programs like ICMizer, Equilab, solvers etc.
I've heard about it......I'm just not stupid to download random software on my computer user account that I use solely for poker and I play no where near high the stakes level when it comes to cash. I do play a number of higher $55-Sunday Million thou whenever I feel like and find the time.

Cheers!!!
 
I love the game of Poker, but I don't trust online poker, especially Cash Game, at lower limits there's a clear system manipulation so "beginners" win with absurd hands, at High Stakes there are a lot of Bots, Collusion and so on, I only play high limits live, online I don't trust it

Also, I always try to warn people, don't play Poker on GGPoker, that site is a total fraud, choose to play on Pokerstars, 888Poker, WPT.. Those are legit sites.
 
CaioRJ said:
I love the game of Poker, but I don't trust Online Poker, especially Cash Game, at lower limits there's a clear system manipulation so "beginners" win with absurd hands
Do you have any evidence to back up this wild claim? Or is it just your mental excuse for, why you were not able to beat even those lower limits?
CaioRJ said:
at High Stakes there are a lot of Bots, Collusion and so on,
This is a reasonable concern, and this cheating scandal did in fact take place in high stakes cash games. To this list one can also add real time use of solvers (RTA).
CaioRJ said:
Also, I always try to warn people, don't play Poker on GGPoker, that site is a total fraud, choose to play on Pokerstars, 888Poker, WPT.. Those are legit sites.
Once again very strong words. How exactly is GGPoker a "total fraud", and do you have any evidence to back up this wild accusation? Personally I still prefer PokerStars over GG Poker, but there is a long way from there to calling GG Poker "a total fraud". And if I had to choose between GG Poker and 888 Poker, it would be GG Poker without a dought.

888 Poker is basically a ghosttown these days with very little action above the micros, terrible customer support and widespread problems with verification and withdrawals. GG on the other hand is the undisputed industry leader with a huge selection of tournaments, 24 hour activity in cash games and a lot of innovation, which other sites then often copy later.
 
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