I think if u go buy what he did with his bat alone. I say he is in. The guy was an RBI machine. He had at least 9 or 10 season in a row with over 100 RBI's. Homeruns over 500. If u needed a big hit he was the guy. But u look at the failed drug tests(steroids) people have to take that into account. I still think he should get in eventually. What do u think?
Nothing against Manny, but none of the steroid users should get in IMO, because if your gonna let them in, then what about the all the others who have cheated in some way or another? For example, I love Pete Rose, but he tarnished the game, and lied about it for years, but I will tell anyone who will listen that there is no place in the Hall of Fame for this type of thing. I mean what do we tell to our kids? This guy was a helluva player except he cheated. Sorry, but no dice for me on this one.
Nope, liked this link from yahoo sports maybe some of the other people here would like to read it if they haven't
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_y...an_manny_ramirez_retires_rays_steroids_040811
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_y...an_manny_ramirez_retires_rays_steroids_040811
His testing positive a second time probably kills any chance he may have had. But, a problem is going to occur eventually when all that is left is suspected/confessed PED users. Does that mean no one will be inducted for 10+ years, or that someone who wouldn't normally get in gets inducted?
Sports evolve. What were once known as "cricket" and "rugby" on the island, became "baseball" and "football" when played and allowed to develop on American soil.
I posit it is high time for another such change. We should stop calling this game baseball. Give it a new name. Something like "Cyborgball". The Hall of Fame would be replete with big names with amazing statistics like Manny, Sammy, Roger and Mark.
And we could leave the Baseball Hall of Fame to the truly deserving baseball players like Hank, Babe, Willie, Mickey and the Duke.
I posit it is high time for another such change. We should stop calling this game baseball. Give it a new name. Something like "Cyborgball". The Hall of Fame would be replete with big names with amazing statistics like Manny, Sammy, Roger and Mark.
And we could leave the Baseball Hall of Fame to the truly deserving baseball players like Hank, Babe, Willie, Mickey and the Duke.
I fail to see how people are so righteously angry about today's PED but totally forget how the players of the 50's/60's/70's/80's all used various forms of amphetimines while playing. It's pretty common knowledge, never was hidden and, for the games played while on uppers, their stats would be just as skewed upwards as the steroid era.
Imagine how good the really old time players like Ruth would have been had they not shown up for work hungover or drunk, yet all that seems to be forgotten too.
The HOF is a diluted place anyway. In my mind there should be a real HOF for players like Ruth, Gehrig and their peers and another one for marginal players like Dawson, Gossage and their peers.
Oh and uppers are still a BIG part of today's legal baseball. Check out how many players are diagnosed with ADD or ADHD so they can get these drugs "legally" and compare that to the national average.
Put players in for their performance on the field and, unless they did something egregious like bet on baseball or get convicted of a felony, vote them in if their stats meet the requirements.
Imagine how good the really old time players like Ruth would have been had they not shown up for work hungover or drunk, yet all that seems to be forgotten too.
The HOF is a diluted place anyway. In my mind there should be a real HOF for players like Ruth, Gehrig and their peers and another one for marginal players like Dawson, Gossage and their peers.
Oh and uppers are still a BIG part of today's legal baseball. Check out how many players are diagnosed with ADD or ADHD so they can get these drugs "legally" and compare that to the national average.
Put players in for their performance on the field and, unless they did something egregious like bet on baseball or get convicted of a felony, vote them in if their stats meet the requirements.
The Hall of Fame should be a shrine to the history of baseball -- by excluding the users, gamblers, etc., they are effectively denying history, hoping these issues will be forgotten.
Let them in, I say -- but they will forever have that asterisk. I think this might be more punishing long-term than exclusion.
Let them in, I say -- but they will forever have that asterisk. I think this might be more punishing long-term than exclusion.
Shufflin said:
What it "should be" and what it is, are two different things. If there was a section for cheats, then let them in and be marked as such. Your point of veiw will mark you as "one to watch" during any poker game. BTW, are sports stars "holy" ? ala "enshrined". The sad part is, cheats will be remembered as much as true winners. After watching Jose Canseco sniff sniff for 4 episodes of celebrity apprentice, I have really got to wonder.
Manny retires instead of facing a 100 game ban - why is it only baseball that continues to give out such soft penalties.
If along with most other sports you get at least a year or 2 (sometimes life) a lot of this could be nipped in the bud i'm sure.
No to the hall of fame - but he will be forever remembered for being Manny
If along with most other sports you get at least a year or 2 (sometimes life) a lot of this could be nipped in the bud i'm sure.
No to the hall of fame - but he will be forever remembered for being Manny
Not only no but HELL NO, i am a So Cal guy 1000% and even though i am an Angels fan i will root for the Doyers in the National league but this guy is and was a cancer every where he ended up. To try and compare players using uppers to steroids is like apples to oranges, there is no way in this world that doing any form of speed helped them out, if you have ever tried speed you would know that you can't concentrate on just 1 thing you would be to fidigty to even bat properly so to claim they are the same as performance enhancers is straight up crazy
Manny's case is far more egregious than other sluggers who tooks steroids before there was a testing program in place for players in MLB. Not only did Manny get caught once through the testing program. He obviously didn't care too much about the fact that he got caught, as he went and tested positively again. There is no way Manny gets in to the HOF. Its a bizarre ending to a bizarre player's career; obviously gifted in some ways and not in others.