$0 NL HE MTT: how we play this hand

budaloto

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  • #1
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Happens to me so many times i hold KK, and open 2.5bb player after me call, then on board show AXX , i raise to see if he has A, they call all time on flop, then i go check on turn they raise.
Do i call it on turn, on this specific hand is worst, but on board A 6 8 rainbow 3 what we do? its not possible in 10 hands they never to bluff me, and does players has high Vpip.
 

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SpanRmonka

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So you bet to see if he has the A, he calls, and then he also bets, but you still don't believe him?

Or maybe you still don't know, so the bet is not achieving what you wanted it to, right?

How about with all your 2nd pairs, try not betting? Just check, and then maybe bet the turn? Its known as a delayed C bet, and accomplishes a number of things, it alllows you to get to the river more cheaply, it gets quite a few folds from hands, or players, who just want to see another card with their draw or nice looking cards. It stops you getting chips in while behind.

Also if the villain checks to you twice its very very unlikely he has the A.
 
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ne0npipe

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fundiver199

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Preflop
Not much to say here. Obviously we always open KK, and 2,5BB is good sizing.

Flop
As SpanRmonka say, your rational for betting this flop is flawed. We never bet "for information" or "to find out where we are". We bet for value (to get called by worse hands), as a bluff (to get better hands to fold) or for equity denial. On this board you will never get a better hand to fold, so you are not bluffing. And if you are not happy, when your opponent continue and make a small bet on a completely brick turn, then you are not really betting for value either. Finally your hand dont need much protection, since the only possible overcard is already on the board.

And since you have no good reason to bet, you should check. Checking does not mean, you are giving up, because this hand can easily check-call. And this is something, we should be doing a lot out of position, even when we were the preflop raiser. So if you are not comfortable taking these kind of more passive lines, then you need to get used to it. Solvers C-bet way less out of position than in position. And so should you, even if you are playing in the micros.

You might also need to think about this spot a bit differently. Your current thought proces is likely something like "oh man, there is always an ace on the flop, when I have KK, why am I so unlucky". But instead you want to think of this situation as "I am out of position with second pair and a gutshot". Because then rather than having an emotional reaction to a bad flop (which of course it is), you are accepting the situation and focusing on making the best decisions.

And the truth is, we are not always going to win the hand or even get to showdown, when we are out of position with second pair and a gutshot. So part of the mental game is to accept this and get rid of entitlement tilt, just because you had a very strong hand preflop. At this point there is no real difference between having KK and KQ, so there is no reason to think about those situations differently.

Turn
As played this is a check-call, when he only bet 35% pot. You will of course be behind here quite often, but you are not drawing dead, unless he has specifically KT, which you block. Against everything else a K or T will often give you the winning hand or at least a chop. And sometimes you have the best hand already. He is not only floating you on the flop with top pair or better. He could have a flushdraw. Or he could have a worse made hand, that he should be checking back, but he bet it anyway. Like KQ or QT.
 
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budaloto

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budaloto

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fundiver199 said:
Preflop
Not much to say here. Obviously we always open KK, and 2,5BB is good sizing.

Flop
As SpanRmonka say, your rational for betting this flop is flawed. We never bet "for information" or "to find out where we are". We bet for value (to get called by worse hands), as a bluff (to get better hands to fold) or for equity denial. On this board you will never get a better hand to fold, so you are not bluffing. And if you are not happy, when your opponent continue and make a small bet on a completely brick turn, then you are not really betting for value either. Finally your hand dont need much protection, since the only possible overcard is already on the board.

And since you have no good reason to bet, you should check. Checking does not mean, you are giving up, because this hand can easily check-call. And this is something, we should be doing a lot out of position, even when we were the preflop raiser. So if you are not comfortable taking these kind of more passive lines, then you need to get used to it. Solvers C-bet way less out of position than in position. And so should you, even if you are playing in the micros.

You might also need to think about this spot a bit differently. Your current thought proces is likely something like "oh man, there is always an ace on the flop, when I have KK, why am I so unlucky". But instead you want to think of this situation as "I am out of position with second pair and a gutshot". Because then rather than having an emotional reaction to a bad flop (which of course it is), you are accepting the situation and focusing on making the best decisions.

And the truth is, we are not always going to win the hand or even get to showdown, when we are out of position with second pair and a gutshot. So part of the mental game is to accept this and get rid of entitlement tilt, just because you had a very strong hand preflop. At this point there is no real difference between having KK and KQ, so there is no reason to think about those situations differently.

Turn
As played this is a check-call, when he only bet 35% pot. You will of course be behind here quite often, but you are not drawing dead, unless he has specifically KT, which you block. Against everything else a K or T will often give you the winning hand or at least a chop. And sometimes you have the best hand already. He is not only floating you on the flop with top pair or better. He could have a flushdraw. Or he could have a worse made hand, that he should be checking back, but he bet it anyway. Like KQ or QT.
you are right, i need to go check when i see A on flop. If board is Ad 6h 4c, and i check he has Pocket pair 77+ he will raise, then i fold right?
My points is they always don't have pair of A , and because they in position easy bluff. If players has 40% vpip, and he do same thing when he is on positon with CB 100%.
 
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fundiver199

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budaloto said:
If board is Ad 6h 4c, and i check he has Pocket pair 77+ he will raise, then i fold right?
No you check and call any reasonable bet, and then you make decisions on later streets. As you say, people dont always have an ace, just because they bet that kind of board. If they continue firing, then maybe you fold on later streets unimproved. But nobody has a betting frequency of 100% of flop, turn and river. Sometimes they will check back one or more streets and allow you to get to showdown without investing to much, and then maybe you beat a hand like 88 or 99 at showdown.
 
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Semprini

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  • #8
You're out of position and the flop is not the nicest. However we have equity (need a T), we have 2nd pair value and we block KT pretty hard, so it's not the end of the world.

Whenever we are unsure out of position we can check because checking out of position is usually the best move anyways. Feeler bets are generally just not good plays. Rather than a feeler bet we might place a blocker bet to keep the price down if we think Villain will raise but half pot is not a blocker bet. I'm not sure that a blocker is the best way to go here anyways (I don't know this Villain).

I think @fundiver199 has described your thought process quite well. Essentially, you see that A on the flop and you kinda panic. What we need here is patience. I think we check here and check-call any reasonable size.
 
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