$11 NLHE MTT Bounty: what's the move here?

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Alucard

Alucard

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Very early in the game. I'm clueless about the play here. Should I take a chance for a deep run or be a nit & fold?

PokerStars - 25/50 Ante 8 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

UTG+1: 190.48 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 4)
MP: 108.86 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
MP+1: 129.04 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 4)
MP+2: 110.86 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
CO: 91.18 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
BTN: 109.16 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
Hero (SB): 96.5 BB
BB: 88.32 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
UTG: 119.68 BB (VPIP: 75.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)

9 players post ante of 0.16 BB, Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.94 BB) Hero has Ac Kc
UTG raises to 2.52 BB, fold, MP raises to 7.7 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero ?
 
This is one of the spots, where your cash game skills need to take over. Look at the situation:
1. Though you don't have much hands on UTG, still you can see he has been quite active. There can be two reasons for it: either he's on a massive rush (highly unlikely) or he's just playing a wider range.
2. MP knows that UTG is opening a lot and doesn't want to give him a free shot at a cheap-flop, which is exactly what I would have done in his spot. That said, he's saying he's strong.

Option 1 (Cold call 3-bet): Even against a tight-ish 3-bet MP range & a little wide-UTG range, 3-ways, you have enough equity to call and see the flop; if you get 4-bet (or 5-bet), you'll have to let it go, depending on the sizing.

Option 2 (Cold 4-bet): You could also consider 4-betting, but know that you'll be looked up by at least 1 opponent and have to play post-flop OOP. Which in my opinion, doesn't add much value except for a bloated pot.

But, you cannot simply fold here.
 
well I did the craziest things ever & shoved 100BB!!!
Reason - I never like flatting with AK. And being OOP I felt it'll be very hard to play against UTG open & an MP 3bet against an utg open both flatting & 4betting

Was it wrong? 😕 I guess it should be very wrong
 
Alucard said:
well I did the craziest things ever & shoved 100BB!!!
Reason - I never like flatting with AK. And being OOP I felt it'll be very hard to play against UTG open & an MP 3bet against an utg open both flatting & 4betting

Was it wrong? 😕 I guess it should be very wrong
Click to expand...

You know the answer, what more can I add?😉

You have to work on those deep stack play.
As for me, you'll see me cold-call 2-bets with hands like JJ, 3-bets with QQ, early on, deep stacked (even in spots like, CO vs BU, or BU vs BB).
 
why would you do that?
I usually play deepstack like I would play cash but in this situation I was really clueless.
I don't understand why you wouldn't 3bet JJ. But I would flat QQ sometimes.
 
Sry,Alu. But why the $11 buy-in? I`m just saying because it has to not hurt.If this was a 1.10 buy-in,would you even post it? :damnmate: Peace....(and i like the shove,btw,but i think u already know that,lol)
 
I think only 4 bet is the option, I would make it to like 22bbs

Folding is simply bad cause you are way too deep, flat calling out of position generally will be losing play in a long run
 
Alucard said:
why would you do that?
I usually play deepstack like I would play cash but in this situation I was really clueless.
I don't understand why you wouldn't 3bet JJ. But I would flat QQ sometimes.
Click to expand...

Because the value from 3-betting such hands in cash games, comes from the fact that you can reload. In tournaments, we don't have that luxury (unless its a re-buy, in which case the strategy is very different). Think about it, if I start 3-betting JJs early on, doesn't the Villain, in that spot, get enough implied odds to make the call with the hands he started with (assuming early on Villain's range is heavily weighed towards value)? And what are you trying to achieve in the early stages, a double-up? A 100bb stack is as effective as a 200bb stack, because there's so much room for maneuverability with that deep a stack. If its a turbo, I might still consider a 3-betting range, because one blind level you're 100bb deep, the next 50bb, so you cannot wait too long for hands. But in a slow structure, you need to proceed cautiously.

Remember, as the saying goes, you can never win a tournament in the Early stages, but you surely can lose it.
 
terryk said:
Sry,Alu. But why the $11 buy-in? I`m just saying because it has to not hurt.If this was a 1.10 buy-in,would you even post it? :damnmate: Peace....
Click to expand...

buy in doesn't hurt because I'm sattying in terry 🙂
All the low stakes I'm sattying in & no hurt to my BR.
I'd only play around $10-$15 max for tourneys (it happens rarely) & if I loose all, I cover it from playing cash.
That's how I play low stakes by using micro buyins 😉

But still I'm not sure about the play here.
 
Alucard said:
Reason - I never like flatting with AK.
Click to expand...
Why? I'm not trying to beat you up for making a mistake, I'm genuinely asking.

Against one raiser, with medium stacks, there is a good case to be made for going all in with AK out of position.
You are ahead of most hands that will raise you (Ax), and basically tied with most others (pocket pairs). So you only fear AA and KK, which are a small part of the opponents ranges. And you have fold equity. Since you are all in, you are no longer out of position, so you are not vulnerable to bluffs.

But against a raise and a 3-bet, your opponent's ranges are much narrower. You are probably tied or behind most hands of at least the three-better. And there are two opponents, not one. Tighter ranges and two opponents both reduce your fold equity.

Alucard said:
And being OOP I felt it'll be very hard to play against UTG open & an MP 3bet against an utg open both flatting & 4betting
Click to expand...

13.6 BB in the pot and it costs you 7.2 BB to call, so you are getting ~2:1 on this call.

Even if we assign a conservative range of [JJ+, AK] to both players (which is much too tight for UTG), your equity is about 16% against them, but their individual equities are only ~32%, and split pots represent ~20% of the outcomes. Not quite sure how to do the math to prove it with multiple players and such a high % of split pots, but it sounds like you have what you need to call from a strictly equity perspective.

Playability is high. Fold to 4-bets. On the flop, proceed with top pair or better, or flush draws if given the right price, otherwise fold. If you only have top pair, fold to large turn or river bets, especially from the three-better.

OOP you are vulnerable to bluffs, but if the hand is 3-way bluffs are less likely.

You could hit top pair and be dominated by AA or a set, but you could also make a flush (or, much less likely, straight) and win a massive pot.
 
Last edited:
Alucard said:
buy in doesn't hurt because I'm sattying in terry 🙂
All the low stakes I'm sattying in & no hurt to my BR.
I'd only play around $10-$15 max for tourneys (it happens rarely) & if I loose all, I cover it from playing cash.
That's how I play low stakes by using micro buyins 😉

But still I'm not sure about the play here.
Click to expand...
forgot u satty in,,,makes sense😉
 
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