Has anyone else noticed how hard it is to convert big tickets into cash?

AdelsonFagundes · Monday at 1:51 PM

Good afternoon guys, how are you?

In the month of July, I was able to win some PokerStars tickets in promotions on X (Twitter), including US$ 33, US$ 11, and US$ 5.50 .

I was very excited, after all they were tournaments that are not normally part of my bankroll.

But looking back, I noticed a curious thing: I couldn't convert any of them into money.

That made me think...

Is the field of these tournaments really much more difficult?

Or is it that the pressure to play a bigger buy-in ends up influencing our decisions?

What about you? What was the biggest ticket I've ever won? Were they able to transform this debut opportunity or did they have a similar experience? 🎯♠️

koalapanda · Monday at 10:31 PM

Congrats on winning those tickets! To answer your question: it’s mostly a mix of extreme variance and mental pressure.
In MTTs, cashing standard fields only happens around 15% of the time. Playing just 3 tournaments ($5.50, $11, and $33) is a tiny sample size—even top pros regularly brick 10 or 15 tournaments in a row! While $11 and $33 fields are definitely tougher with fewer pure recreational players, failing to cash 3 shots is completely normal variance. Don't be too hard on yourself!

AdelsonFagundes · Tuesday at 9:18 AM

koalapanda said:
Parabéns por ter ganhado os ingressos! Respondendo à sua pergunta: é principalmente uma combinação de extrema aleatoriedade e pressão psicológica.
Em MTTs, ficar entre os premiados em torneios padrão acontece em apenas cerca de 15% das vezes. Jogar apenas 3 torneios (US$ 5,50, US$ 11 e US$ 33) é uma amostra muito pequena — até mesmo os melhores profissionais costumam ter 10 ou 15 torneios seguidos sem ganhar nada! Embora os torneios de US$ 11 e US$ 33 sejam definitivamente mais competitivos, com menos jogadores puramente recreativos, não ficar entre os premiados em 3 torneios é uma variância completamente normal. Não se culpe demais!

Thank you! It makes sense. I think that the anxiety to make good use of tickets ends up weighing on them too. I'm going to keep playing my best and let the variation do the work. 💪

Snake2007 · Tuesday at 9:30 AM

I noticed this a long time ago, and that’s why I no longer play in tournaments where the prizes are tickets.

SpanRmonka · Tuesday at 9:42 AM

Of course it will be tougher, and you also have to adapt your game a little in bigger tournaments.

Whereas in lower buy ins you can mostly play TAG type poker, value bet heavy and get good results that way, in larger buy ins, as I assumed you noticed, you get less limpers, less folds to you in the BUT or SB, you you have way less chances to win easy chips.

This means that if you continue to play tight, you have to use that image and 3 bet a little lighter than perhaps you are comfirtable with in a low stakes game.

I notice this when I play the GG masters, there are still plenty of satty players, but especially later in the game, almost zero pots have no one raising, as players are just stronger and play a more accurate range. They will then also fold more to a 3 bet, and be less sticky than some players at lower stakes.

fifille07 · Tuesday at 9:59 AM

Yes, I noticed that, but I think I'm simply not good enough for high buy-ins.

fundiver199 · Tuesday at 10:03 AM

As said already not cashing in 3 MTTs is completely normal even for winning players. But that being said more expensive games are going to be tougher in general. In my experience there is a pretty big difference between a $5.5 and a $33 MTT though. $5.5 games run all the time across sites and attract a fairly wide spectrum of players but rarely the very best.

But apart from special series like the current WCOOP Boot Camp a $33 MTT is actually among the most expensive games running on PokerStars, so here you will already find most of the really good MTT players, that are playing on the site at that time. For instance right now (16.00 CET) there are 21 NLH MTTs running with late registration open on PokerStars.

Among those the most expensive is the $109 Daily Starter, and the second most expensive is the $55 Mystery Express. But after this follow a $33 Bounty Builder, a $33 Blazing Giants, a $22 Bounty Builder, the $22 Tortoise and a $22 Progressive Total KO Zoom game. And for sure most of the really good MTT players on the site are playing not just the $109 and $55 game but also the $22-33 games to a large extend to get enough volume. So while the change is gradual, mid-stakes games ($20-99) is where, the level of play really begin to go up.

fundiver199 · Tuesday at 11:01 AM

My results from 888 Poker is a pretty good illustration of the above point. I played there as fundiver198 from may 2020 to january 2022. The account is still open, but only 11 games have been played since then. I did really well on the site winning $5.120 over 3.451 games with an average buyin of $8.31. There are some promotional centrolls included in these results as well as a few SnGs, but mainly these were MTT results.

But the really interesting part comes, when you look at the breakdown, which is a feature for subscribers, because then it becomes apparent, that all my profits came from games with a buyin < $10. I played 811 MTTs with a buyin from $10-55, and over those games I lost $240 with a total ROI of -2% so basically breakeven.

If I look only at games with a buyin of $20-55, it become really extreme, because I only played 200 of those but lost a whopping $3.106 for a total ROI of -56%. Now obviously 200 games is not a big sample, and I think, there was some amount of run-bad involved in this result. I dont think, my true ROI in $21-55 games was -56%, while my ROI over 611 $10-16,5 games was +36%. This difference is to big to make any sense.

Put the point still remain, that I was absolutely printing money in games with a buyin of <$10, while more expensive games was at best a wash. I satellited into a decent amount of the $21-55 games and made a good profit in the satellites, since many of them ran with an overlay, and they were just as soft as other sub $10 games on the site.

So my true loss from playing $21-55 MTTs on 888 Poker was less than $3.106. But it still illustrate, why playing satellites for mid-stakes games is probably not the best idea in the world, unless you already know, that you are a winning player in these games. And in that case you will have enough bankroll to buy in directly, so you wont need to play the satellites.

https://www.sharkscope.com/poker-statistics/networks/888Poker/players/fundiver198

SpanRmonka · Tuesday at 5:53 PM

fundiver199 said:
My results from 888 Poker is a pretty good illustration of the above point. I played there as fundiver198 from may 2020 to january 2022. The account is still open, but only 11 games have been played since then. I did really well on the site winning $5.120 over 3.451 games with an average buyin of $8.31. There are some promotional centrolls included in these results as well as a few SnGs, but mainly these were MTT results.

But the really interesting part comes, when you look at the breakdown, which is a feature for subscribers, because then it becomes apparent, that all my profits came from games with a buyin < $10. I played 811 MTTs with a buyin from $10-55, and over those games I lost $240 with a total ROI of -2% so basically breakeven.

If I look only at games with a buyin of $20-55, it become really extreme, because I only played 200 of those but lost a whopping $3.106 for a total ROI of -56%. Now obviously 200 games is not a big sample, and I think, there was some amount of run-bad involved in this result. I dont think, my true ROI in $21-55 games was -56%, while my ROI over 611 $10-16,5 games was +36%. This difference is to big to make any sense.

Put the point still remain, that I was absolutely printing money in games with a buyin of <$10, while more expensive games was at best a wash. I satellited into a decent amount of the $21-55 games and made a good profit in the satellites, since many of them ran with an overlay, and they were just as soft as other sub $10 games on the site.

So my true loss from playing $21-55 MTTs on 888 Poker was less than $3.106. But it still illustrate, why playing satellites for mid-stakes games is probably not the best idea in the world, unless you already know, that you are a winning player in these games. And in that case you will have enough bankroll to buy in directly, so you wont need to play the satellites.

https://www.sharkscope.com/poker-statistics/networks/888Poker/players/fundiver198

Really interesting analysis, but more important to know that unless you are a very good player, you are much much less likely to make money on these games.....just shows how tough it can be to make steps up in buy in!

AdelsonFagundes · Tuesday at 9:07 PM

Snake2007 said:
Notei isso há muito tempo, e é por isso que não participo mais de torneios em que os prêmios são ingressos.

it's really disheartening...

fundiver199 · Tuesday at 9:42 PM

SpanRmonka said:
Really interesting analysis, but more important to know that unless you are a very good player, you are much much less likely to make money on these games.....just shows how tough it can be to make steps up in buy in!

It does, and I think, part of the reason is the fact, I described in my previous post, that once you enter mid-stakes games, you are already near the top of the food chain, when it comes to regular daily games on most sites. In fact 888 Poker dont even have that many mid-stakes games left at all, and when I recently played a short session on the site, a $16.5 game was cancelled leaving a $11 game the most expensive, I was even able to get into.

My results on 888 Poker were extreme, but my results on PokerStars show a similar pattern with all my profits coming from games with a buyin of $11 or lower, while games with a higher buyin (both MTT and SnG) show a net loss, just not as extreme as on 888 Poker. ACR Poker is the only site, where I show a profit in games between $15.75 and $33 with around half my total profit on the site coming from such games and a ROI of around +12%.

Johnvaka · Tuesday at 10:48 PM

It's almost impossible I don't know why

dreamer13 · Wednesday at 4:17 AM

The important thing is to find your center and your reason for playing. The goal is to have fun or make the best possible decision in a given situation.We've all been there.Just take a break or give up and think about your mistakes more than your successes and see what you can do to mitigate them more often than usual.

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