At what point do you take your flips in a tournament?

  • Thread starter Thread starter RamdeeBen
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I really dont flip unless I have to......I think the safest way to go deep in MTT is stealing blinds or restealing by 3betting......
how do you know you are flipping? I flip when I m forced to flip ....that usually happens when I am under the 15BB range......here I shoving my stack not to flip but for fold equity .....if I get called then its a flip.
 
dlam said:
I really dont flip unless I have to......I think the safest way to go deep in MTT is stealing blinds or restealing by 3betting......
how do you know you are flipping? I flip when I m forced to flip ....that usually happens when I am under the 15BB range......here I shoving my stack not to flip but for fold equity .....if I get called then its a flip.
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You're flipping against their range, they mgiht have you crushed or you mgiht have them crushed but on balance it's a flip. In a tourney I flip at every chance I get, min cashing 10 in a row is pretty pointless. It's pretty pointless not flipping and you won't do well trying to avoid them.
 
X__Gandalf__X said:
Heads up, I'll take a flip if my perception is that my opponent is a better player than I am.
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This is how I approach it too. Other factors come into play, but if I think a player can outplay me 6 out of 10 times, and I have a chance to narrow that to a 50/50 then I always take it.
 
TeUnit said:
the best answer is it depends, how many blinds, tourney structure, what place you are in, your opponents, etc....
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This! You have to consider a lot of things to get the right answer.
 
Wow I made this thread back in October 😉

I don't mind flipping for 15-20blinds in general if the structure is turbo. If the blind levels are 15 minutes though, I like to avoid the flip as usually in most cases a much better opportunity arises where you pick up a better pair (10's+) or you shove someone who is likely calling light with weaker aces vs your A,10+ or whatever..
 
if you actually have a flip vs his range then you should almost always take it as having a larger stack gives you way more options in a tournament.
not to say you should call in spots where you likely have a hand that has even equity against the bottom of his range and is crushed by the top of it.
 
Ok I have another question then. Seems you all are talking about flipping with A 10+ what about pairs if you have 99 or JJ knowing he most likely has 2 overs?
 
Vex444 said:
Ok I have another question then. Seems you all are talking about flipping with A 10+ what about pairs if you have 99 or JJ knowing he most likely has 2 overs?
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the actual hand strength doesnt matter, what does matter is how well it does against his range.

that may not have been clear, absolute hand strengths dont matter, what matters is the relative hand strength of our hand compared with all the possible hands he would make a given move with.

for example 88 vs and UTG shove is not always a clear cut decision, but when it is BvB and ranges are much wider it often is.
 
Vex444 said:
Ok I have another question then. Seems you all are talking about flipping with A 10+ what about pairs if you have 99 or JJ knowing he most likely has 2 overs?
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Calling is still a flip vs two overs but you just have slightly more equity with jacks rather than 9'9s vs A,K/A,Q etc. Obviously if he is shoving Q,J/K,J then you have them crushed but we are talking more cases of overs vs under pairs.
 
I would have thought who you are taking a flip against would have mattered more?

If it is a true flip, and Im playing against Phil Ivey, then I would take the flip every single time. He would outplay me >95% of the time, so a flip shifts my win : loss ratio from 95 : 5 to 50 : 50

If I am playing with One-armed Bob from the Bunbury Golf Club then I would out play him 70% of the time. Why would I swap a 70 :30 for a 50 : 50?

Am I missing something?
 
Vex444 said:
Ok I have another question then. Seems you all are talking about flipping with A 10+ what about pairs if you have 99 or JJ knowing he most likely has 2 overs?
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With TT or better, the flip should be in your favor against two over cards on a percentage basis, right?
 
CuttleFish said:
I would have thought who you are taking a flip against would have mattered more?

If it is a true flip, and Im playing against Phil Ivey, then I would take the flip every single time. He would outplay me >95% of the time, so a flip shifts my win : loss ratio from 95 : 5 to 50 : 50

If I am playing with One-armed Bob from the Bunbury Golf Club then I would out play him 70% of the time. Why would I swap a 70 :30 for a 50 : 50?

Am I missing something?
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Yeah you are 😉 Or maybe you are missing a deep run where AVG stack has been 15-20 blinds left and haven't ran deep enough in MTT's to understand the situation well. Obviously if they are better than you, then flipping is a good idea if you are deep. However, when we are getting middle/late stages of a tournament, unless you have been luckily enough to pick up big hands and have donkeys pay you off then you will be flipping at SOME point, regardless if they are the worse or best player in the world. The matter of fact is that you will be shallow at some point (unless like I say you run good in 100% of tournaments) so your only play is shoving/folding meaning you will be flipping vs good/bad players all the same.

If you was phil ivey, would you want to be taking flips if you didn't need to? No..yet he has to himself at points.

I think you're missing the point too, obviously if you are playing bad players then in general when you're deep, you an out play them. However what happens when after a while the blinds increase, your only spots are shoving/folding/calling? You can't be picky and choosy on who you wish to pick 50/50 spots with the mindset "I can out play him here, get a 70:30 position" as this is unlikely due to the point in the tournament.

Mr.Bad. player shoves, you have 10-15 blinds left, you hold A,Q and he has a pair of nines, do you think "Ok, I'm 50/50 here, I'm folding!! I can wait fora better spot because I can out play this dude so I'm going to wait for a 70-30 spot which will never occur unless I'm very lucky!" < < If that is your thinking then you surely won't last very long as the blinds will cripple you a few hands later and the chances are you are not going to get a 70:30 spot like you say.

:banghead: :banghead:
 
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