Limping with pocket pairs in late position?

qb93

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  • #1
Limping in late position with pocket pairs to set-mine: A valid low-stakes strategy or a massive leak that drains your win rate?
 
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Lodestone

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  • #2
Why not raise if you're in LP?
 
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qb93

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  • #3
Lodestone said:
Why not raise if you're in LP?
Maybe to set up a trap?
Hence the question: A valid low-stakes strategy or a massive leak that drains your win rate? What do you think?
 
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Lodestone

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  • #4
Maybe if SB raises any two and BB is a calling station.

Its contextual but generally you're minimizing fold equity and therefore stealing value from yourself.

Personally I feel like when I play trappy I get punished half of the time. Maybe that's just karma for me gloating when it works though lol
 
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qb93

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  • #5
Lodestone said:
Maybe if SB raises any two and BB is a calling station.

Its contextual but generally you're minimizing fold equity and therefore stealing value from yourself.

Personally I feel like when I play trappy I get punished half of the time. Maybe that's just karma for me gloating when it works though lol
So true, end up trapping myself most of time too. Especially with premium hands like AA, KK and the famous JJ!!
 
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Marshmalo1994

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  • #6
If there's no one else in the hand before you I'd say it'll be better to raise, to protect yourself from many flops that weaken your pocket pair.
There's some situations where limping with AA is ok tho, maybe expecting a raise.
 
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  • #7
I prefer to create.
When I limp with low pairs in the hope of hitting a crack, I generally don't hit the flop and end up giving up. At least by increasing the bet, I still have a chance of winning the blinds or taking the pot with a c-bet.
 
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armoko

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  • #8
Limping with a strong pair sometimes works but usually leads to trouble and losing everything or at least most of your chips. I’d definitely rather raise than limp.
 
ne0npipe

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  • #9
Depending on your stack, the stacks of others, and the strength of your pocket pair, folding or raising is usually the way to go in late position. But hypothetically, if you ever do limp, flop a set on a dry board and your opponent hits top pair, you'd be in a pretty sweet spot.
 
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  • #10
I try to limp as little as possible into the pot - the odds on the flop are 1:8 - but it also depends on the size of my stack; if I'm under 15 BB I go all-in, although it also depends on the table.

but I'd rather raise
 
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  • #11
Its not something, I personally do, but if the players behind are all bad and wont punish you for doing it, I guess, it can work? With a 25BB stack, we cant profitably raise hands like 22 or 33 even from BTN, so the alternative is to open fold them, which is the GTO strategy. If we are 50BB deep, we can make a normal raise with small pairs from BTN and CO, and then I would much prefer to do that. It gives us more ways to win the pot than to just try and flop a set.
 
veryluckyfish7k

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  • #12
qb93 said:
Limping in late position with pocket pairs to set-mine: A valid low-stakes strategy or a massive leak that drains your win rate?
It’s a leak. If everyone folds to you in late position, always raise your pocket pairs. Here is why limping is bad:
1)No fold equity: You miss the chance to steal the blinds right now.
2)No initiative: If you don't hit your set (which happens 88% of the time), you are forced to fold. If you raise, you can win the pot with a c-bet anyway.
3)Free cards for blinds: You let the Big Blind see the flop for free with trash hands.
The only exception: You can "over-limp" (just call) if 3 or 4 players already limped before you and you want to set-mine cheaply. If it’s folded to you always raise!

My saved rule, but sometimes i forgot about it:ROFLMAO:
 
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  • #13
In my games I always try to raise, even if I already have an assailant at the table (becoming a 3-bet), and it's usually a raise of 5 to 7 BB, just to get rid of the limpers and be left with only Hero vs. Vilain.

The highest probability is that you will not see a similar card, and you usually get high cards on the board, which is why the strategy mentioned above.
 
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  • #14
to be honest, open-limping when everyone folded to you is a bad idea that will drain your win rate. You should almost always raise or fold instead.
If you just limp, you miss the chance to win the blinds right there, you make your hand super predictable because opponents know you don't have Aces or Kings, and you let the Big Blind see a free flop with random trash cards that could easily crack your pair.
The only time limping is fine is if other players have already limp-called ahead of you. In that case, you can just call along (over-limp) to see a cheap flop. If you hit your set, the pot will be huge and you'll get paid off. But if you are the first one entering the pot, always raise!
 
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  • #15
Then you limp with AA and the big blind doesn't react and makes 2 pairs. Limp is good in Mystery for hunting bounty.
 
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  • #16
I don't think limping from late position is a good game.
 
hardongear

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  • #17
qb93 said:
Maybe to set up a trap?
Hence the question: A valid low-stakes strategy or a massive leak that drains your win rate? What do you think?
With only a 12% chance of hitting your trips on the flop that's a terrible plan and a massive leak. With that said if I had AA, KK or QQ and I know 110% for a fact I'll get raised behind me by a manic that plays to many hands and is too aggressive when he does then it becomes a decent plan to limp with the purpose of re-raising that type of villain.

Low stakes it's simply better to play straight forward poker. Bet, raise and value bet them to death is how you beat most low stakes players who are calling stations. No reason to over think things and play above their thinking level.....it will only cost in the end.

Cheers!!!
 
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  • #18
It's a possibility, although I don't think it's the most efficient way to use a limp in the final positions, where we have a positional advantage!

By raising, we can simply take the blinds without exposure and have an easy hand to play/develop post-flop.
 
SergioV

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  • #19
I think it depends on the table and stack sizes. At low stakes, limping small and medium pocket pairs in late position can be profitable if several players are already in the pot and you have enough chips to win a big pot when you hit a set.
The problem is when limping becomes automatic. If you're limping every pocket pair regardless of the situation, it can definitely become a leak. In most cases, I'd still prefer raising and taking the initiative rather than just hoping to flop a set. The key is being selective, not following one rule every time.
 
Matt_Burns88

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  • #20
I would advise against open limping any time unless it is a very specific exploit against a particular player. Small and medium pairs are ideal hands to overlimp with though, because when you do hit a set, your hand is very well disguised and can be extremely profitable.
 
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  • #21
qb93 said:
Limping in late position with pocket pairs to set-mine: A valid low-stakes strategy or a massive leak that drains your win rate?
depends what you have. I've found that slow playing pocket pairs turns out to be my enemy cause you'll find some guy call with 52 and make a straight or 2 pairs. rather raise and fold later if you're not the strongest hand after the flop and face an agressor.. thats my opinion ..
 
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  • #22
Always worth considering in late position. But it's important to decide whether you will call if a player after you makes a bid raise or goes all-in. If it's a single table then you should have some idea of how your opponents are likely to play, and whether anyone else has already called. So you may have to decide either to risk it, or go all-in yourself. If in doubt I fold, unless I am crippled, in which case I have to go all-in myself.
 
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  • #23
the general rule , according the the so called experts ,is to raise or fold when you will be the 1st to enter the pot . the modern high speed computers seem to have confirmed that axiom .
 
anbu210

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  • #24
In most MTT situations, I’d consider it more of a leak than a winning strategy.

Limping late position with small pairs can work occasionally at low stakes, but it often misses the chance to steal blinds or take control of the pot.
With increasing blinds and antes, MTTs usually reward aggression more than passive limping.

If stacks are deep and several players have already limped, set-mining can be reasonable.
But as a default strategy, I’d rather raise or fold than routinely limp pocket pairs.
 
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  • #25
Limping heads up is ok but not very wise in a tournament.
 
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