Opening with KJo on the button

qb93

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  • #1
You're deep in a MTT with 25BB. Folded to you on the button with KJo. Do you open-shove, min-raise, or fold? Let’s hear your reasoning! 👇
 
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monkeytilter

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  • #2
Being "deep" into the tourney should make no difference to our play as long as we are not near the bubble.
So.. Min raise 💯

Your hand is too strong to fold and readless you should have no open shoves at 25bb from the button IMHO, min raising allows you to keep your range pretty wide, has your opponents guessing with scope to make mistakes.

Question for you: if you min. raise, what are you doing vs 3 bets from one of the blinds - non-all in and all in?
 
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qb93

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  • #3
monkeytilter said:
Being "deep" into the tourney should make no difference to our play as long as we are not near the bubble.
So.. Min raise 💯

Your hand is too strong to fold and readless you should have no open shoves at 25bb from the button IMHO, min raising allows you to keep your range pretty wide, has your opponents guessing with scope to make mistakes.

Question for you: if you min. raise, what are you doing vs 3 bets from one of the blinds - non-all in and all in?
In that situation it's a strategic fold, without it been suit-connected to see the flop or paired to 4 bet, might not be worth the risk.
 
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  • #4
It's a straightforward open. Well within BTNs range, but at 25bb deep, it would be a disaster to open shove.
 
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  • #5
Min raise, and fold to similar/larger stacks (often dominated), but call if shoved by a short stack (especially if there's an ante).
 
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  • #6
Min-raise of course, unless blinds have tiny stacks.
 
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  • #7
qb93 said:
You're deep in a MTT with 25BB. Folded to you on the button with KJo. Do you open-shove, min-raise, or fold? Let’s hear your reasoning! 👇
I would think that a min raise would not prove effective as the blinds are both somewhat invested therefore I would at least raise 3BB and if reraised then consider fold or Jam
 
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  • #8
"It depends"
 
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  • #9
If the rate increase was small, I'll call right away, but if it was more than 4 times, I'll discard my cards.
 
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  • #10
Nowhere near enough information to give an opinion : what are blinds stack size, my perception of how they play, stakes of the tourney, how far til money, bounties ?
 
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leomarinho

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  • #11
qb93 said:
You're deep in a MTT with 25BB. Folded to you on the button with KJo. Do you open-shove, min-raise, or fold? Let’s hear your reasoning! 👇
With 25BB on the button, I’m almost always min-raising KJo. It’s strong enough to open, but too strong to turn into an open-shove and too good to fold. Min-raising keeps weaker hands in, risks fewer chips, and gives you more flexibility postflop
 
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  • #12
qb93 said:
You're deep in a MTT with 25BB. Folded to you on the button with KJo. Do you open-shove, min-raise, or fold? Let’s hear your reasoning! 👇
A 2bb open it would be ok. If SB and BB are -12BB I think you could put some pressure and push.
KJo in button is too specific.
A good way to study these scenarios is look for the edge. What is the lowest KXo that can play this way?
What is the lowest pair or suited hand?
How many bb are straight push?
 
OLDMONEY

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  • #13
With 25BB, I'm min.raising. KJo is way too strong to fold, but 25BB is also way too deep to open shove. By min.raising, I keep weaker hands in, can still fold to heavy action if needed, and avoid risking my entiire stack unnecessarily.
 
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  • #14
qb93 said:
In that situation it's a strategic fold, without it been suit-connected to see the flop or paired to 4 bet, might not be worth the risk.
Ah u apparently already know the answer.

Its basically never an openfold. We can make an argument for folding if we are on the direct bubble of an expensive tournament and sb/bb are very aggressive and will reshove on ur open a ton or in a satellite when we already got the entry secured with our stacksize.

Dont see any other situations where openfolding such a hand in such a strong position would be justified.
 
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  • #15
Min raise, after i ll adapt to the situation
 
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  • #16
always 2x and watch the flop
 
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  • #17
qb93 said:
You're deep in a MTT with 25BB. Folded to you on the button with KJo. Do you open-shove, min-raise, or fold? Let’s hear your reasoning! 👇
With 25BB on the button, I’m usually min-raising. KJo is too strong to fold and too strong to turn into a 25BB open shove. I’d rather keep weaker hands in, use my position, and make decisions postflop. Of course, stack sizes in the blinds and ICM considerations could change things
 
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  • #18
qb93 said:
You're deep in a MTT with 25BB. Folded to you on the button with KJo. Do you open-shove, min-raise, or fold? Let’s hear your reasoning! 👇

This is a cut and dried standard open. We're not shoving this 25bb deep. We have a strong hand and we have position. All that a shove does is fold out all value and/or get felted by AA, KK, etc.

This is a lovely situation for a 2x or 2.5x open given our stack size. Even if the blinds both call for a pot of 6 to 7.5bb, our stack behind is still very playable on the flop.
 
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  • #19
im more of an all in kind of guy. I want to have a good starting point and i would take a gamble to get ahead and then play tight from there.
 
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  • #20
monkeytilter said:
Being "deep" into the tourney should make no difference to our play as long as we are not near the bubble.
So.. Min raise 💯

Your hand is too strong to fold and readless you should have no open shoves at 25bb from the button IMHO, min raising allows you to keep your range pretty wide, has your opponents guessing with scope to make mistakes.

Question for you: if you min. raise, what are you doing vs 3 bets from one of the blinds - non-all in and all in?
I completely agree. At 25BB, KJo is much too strong to open-shove from the button. A min-raise keeps our range balanced and gives worse hands the chance to continue. Against a non-all-in 3-bet, I'd usually call in position versus reasonable sizing. Against a shove, I'd make my decision based on the opponent's tendencies and stack sizes, since KJo can become a close spot versus a tight player.
 
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  • #21
qb93 said:
You're deep in a MTT with 25BB. Folded to you on the button with KJo. Do you open-shove, min-raise, or fold? Let’s hear your reasoning! 👇
I would definitely open with a min-raise. Folding KJo on the button at 25BB is too tight, and open-shoving risks losing value against weaker hands that would call or defend versus a small raise. Unless there are strong ICM considerations, I think raising is the most profitable play.
 
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  • #22
There are very few if any situations in poker, where we have an open shoving range 25BB deep. So of course the play here is to make a small raise and then go from there. The question would have been more interesting, if you had made it a 10-15BB stack rather than 25BB.
 
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  • #23
25BB deep open shov with KJo is never an option. So, depending on the table dynamic and the profile of the BB player, your decision will vary between min raise or fold and it's almost always min raise
 
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  • #24
fundiver199 said:
if you had made it a 10-15BB stack rather than 25BB.

10bb is the benchmark for most players to shove or fold. At 15bb I am very likely to shove all of my mid pocket pairs. With a hand like say 99, the 15bb of pre-flop fold equity is worth more than the post-flop equity of just 2 outs. Combine that with decent showdown value of 99 (as opposed to say 33) I think is a good shove. But I've never really studied this, just something that I have worked out for myself, so please give feedback.
 
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  • #25
I would min raise. You want to get action from weaker hands defending their blinds, so raising a lot defeats this purpose. Big raises might work against more passive players that are just trying to get past the bubble, but you risk running into a better hand and doubling them up. KJ is always a tricky hand to play, but no matter the position, you are going to want to play it cautiously.
 
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