What do you think of the "Small ball" strategy by Daniel Negreanu?
Small Ball is the idea of playing lots of small pots in position, for example calling raises very wide in late position with deep stacks. You then float the flop a lot if your opponent c-bets and look to pressure him on the late streets.
It's a good strategy so long as:
Stacks are deep
You feel very comfortable playing post-flop
You're playing against opponents capable of folding
On this last point, if you're in game where many players usually see the flop, or where players don't fold much postflop, then smallball isn't the best approach. Instead you want to play stronger hands and make your money value-betting them.
It's a good strategy so long as:
Stacks are deep
You feel very comfortable playing post-flop
You're playing against opponents capable of folding
On this last point, if you're in game where many players usually see the flop, or where players don't fold much postflop, then smallball isn't the best approach. Instead you want to play stronger hands and make your money value-betting them.
Yes, agreed that it is only really for deep stacked and slow structured tourneys, and only when others at the table will allow it. If you have a few very aggressive players at the table that are going to 3 and 4 bet after your small ball call or raise, it can just seem weak. Sometimes you need to fight aggression with aggression.
It really hammers home the value of position. Like others have said, you need a deeper stack and opponents that think a little. You have to scare them by your c-bet call. then when they slow down you crank up the presuure by betting turn. your opponenet has to realize if they call on turn they will likely face a large river bet.
I also like it because I tend to play non-made hands like AK AQ AJ better by keeping the pot smaller allowing me to get to turn and river cheaper and so I can affordably make plays for those pots even if I have completely wiffed on the board.
I also like it because I tend to play non-made hands like AK AQ AJ better by keeping the pot smaller allowing me to get to turn and river cheaper and so I can affordably make plays for those pots even if I have completely wiffed on the board.
jadaminato said:
like others mentioned, it's nice to Play some small ball in the very early stages. just don't gamble to much and try to avoid Building a big pot with a marginal Holding
it also Needs more post flop skills. so if you are unsure About how to Play certain Hands, you better fold them and wait for your premium Hands.
LeeCallaghan said:
just Google 'small ball vs Long ball poker'
you will find some interesting concepts and articles About it.
in a nutshell it's About either playing a lot of Hands for smaller pots or your premium Hands for big pots.
I don't think that Daniel really implemented small-ball all that much and it seems he abandoned it completely once GTO started sucking all the air in the room because suddenly any and all exploitative play was out of fashion.
The way I see it, you maximize your edge and minimize your weaknesses. Small-ball seems to want to level off your edge in exchange for leveling off some variance. Seems a little like kitchen table poker with buddies that you want to keep playing with which means no one is really looking to push any edge for fear of busting someone and losing their company for the rest of the night. It's passive poker for those who enjoy the game more than they enjoy winning money.
My verdict: Fad
The way I see it, you maximize your edge and minimize your weaknesses. Small-ball seems to want to level off your edge in exchange for leveling off some variance. Seems a little like kitchen table poker with buddies that you want to keep playing with which means no one is really looking to push any edge for fear of busting someone and losing their company for the rest of the night. It's passive poker for those who enjoy the game more than they enjoy winning money.
My verdict: Fad
jadaminato said:
First - I am always impressed by how well this style works for Daniel.
Pro - keep applying small amounts of pressure and players feel more compelled to fold
Con - small pots - Like some posters have stated - this style works well when deep stacked
I don't think this style works particularly well in live dailies that are typically turbos (20-min blinds).
But it is an essential tool to have in your poker tool-kit no matter what the format.
You should try to emulate it and see how it works for you.
Good luck!
I've been watching videos of Daniel Negreanu and I came to two conclusions: first, "small ball" would work only at tables with professional players, able to understand what happens at the table and not go crazy with a high pair. And second, I think that much of his strategy is based on his reputation. People are really able to fold anything when he bets.
I think that this strategy doesn't as well as it did a few years ago. You have to keep in mind that poker continually evolves and players adapt.
Right now, when I notice somebody with a high vpip making small stabs, I immediately start raising 100% of their c-bets. Small ball poker is somewhat exploitable in that sense.
Now Daniel is a great player, so you wouldn't be able to outplay him that easily. But your general I-read-Daniels-book-now-I-play-small-ball crowd is another story.
My tip is: look at trends... when everybody is jumping on the bandwagon, start doing the opposite.
Right now, when I notice somebody with a high vpip making small stabs, I immediately start raising 100% of their c-bets. Small ball poker is somewhat exploitable in that sense.
Now Daniel is a great player, so you wouldn't be able to outplay him that easily. But your general I-read-Daniels-book-now-I-play-small-ball crowd is another story.
My tip is: look at trends... when everybody is jumping on the bandwagon, start doing the opposite.
Small balls works great when your not expecting to make large stack from cards like AK, AQ, & so on because the table is playing too safe. The mind simply looks for fooling the opposition with smaller cards. Earlier posts claims of the system working in deep stack is not true, it works in big tournament (Sunday millions) where the chip stack starts of from 10K, just a simple double up may be needed.
Its basically just a word for LAG and using smaller bet sizes in many situations. Back then many players pottet the flop with top pair on a dry board. But today people talk about “downbetting”, so that part has definitely become mainstream. And as others have said, not everyone will let you get away with playing to many hands, so be carefull about the LAG part, especially if you play online or dont have Daniels reading abilities.
Negranu has ben a long time favourite player of mine because of his play style and believe it or not its always been small ball from day one but that does not mean that any style should be favoured against another.
If you are unable to adjust your own play style to cope with the small balls and the big balls (pardon the expression) you need more practice as only practice will make you better.
You could start a tournament and have 8 small ballers against you and get into a rhythm of chipping away at their chips and then move to a new table and find the complete opposite in your opponents. If you continue your play in the same manner, guess what, your out in no time. If you adjust accordingly and vary your style of play with every player change on your table you are a winner
If you are unable to adjust your own play style to cope with the small balls and the big balls (pardon the expression) you need more practice as only practice will make you better.
You could start a tournament and have 8 small ballers against you and get into a rhythm of chipping away at their chips and then move to a new table and find the complete opposite in your opponents. If you continue your play in the same manner, guess what, your out in no time. If you adjust accordingly and vary your style of play with every player change on your table you are a winner