Would you call this preflop with 98s?

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Nesehorn156

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Say you're in the big blind with 98s and the button makes a small open. You have around 30BB.

Calling feels pretty natural to me, but if the same player makes it 3x instead, I start wondering if it's still worth getting involved.

How much does the raise size change your decision with hands like 98s?
 
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Man, my style is pretty conservative. I would only call with a hand like this if I’m facing just one opponent, and only if he calls
 
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Nesehorn156 said:
Say you're in the big blind with 98s and the button makes a small open. You have around 30BB.

Calling feels pretty natural to me, but if the same player makes it 3x instead, I start wondering if it's still worth getting involved.

How much does the raise size change your decision with hands like 98s?
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"Standard" is vs a small raise you can call or 3-bet, for an unknown BTN flip a coin and decide which.
You can adjust if you have more information on them, this might mean always folding, 3-betting more often etc.

If the raise is ~3BB+ I'd just fold as you are no longer getting good odds to see a flop and 3 bet bluffing is now too expensive (would love to see a GTO solve on this though! Maybe GTO just calls upto a point?)
 
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With 30BB, I’m usually happy defending 98s against a small button open because the price and position make it playable. Against a 3x raise, I’d be more selective since the bigger price cuts into the implied odds, especially if the villain is tight.
 
I would still defend a hand as good as 98s to a 3BB open, but there are many other hands, I start dumping. GTO charts are typically made for facing a min-raise or 2.2BB open or something.
 
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Are you going up against the player on the Button only, or are there still more players left to act behind you if you call? It makes a difference. If it is just you and the other player, 98s is a call but you're only continuing on coordinated flops.
 
Nesehorn156 said:
Say you're in the big blind with 98s and the button makes a small open. You have around 30BB.

Calling feels pretty natural to me, but if the same player makes it 3x instead, I start wondering if it's still worth getting involved.

How much does the raise size change your decision with hands like 98s?
Click to expand...
I think I’d usually call a small open with 98s and 30BB. Against a 3x raise I’d be a bit more careful, but I could still call depending on the player. If he’s pretty tight, I’d probably just fold.
 
puzzlefish said:
Are you going up against the player on the Button only, or are there still more players left to act behind you if you call? It makes a difference. If it is just you and the other player, 98s is a call but you're only continuing on coordinated flops.
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I get what you are saying and it's often a good thought, but given suited connectors have maximum draw equity, or nut equity, an extra Villain in the pot just gives us better pot odds to see the flop. If we have more linear equity with a hand like ATo more Villains just gives us less chance to win the hand, and while that's still true with 98s, completing a straight or flush will almost certainly beat everyone in the hand no matter how many Villains there are, so it's worth the risk to just check-fold a bad flop for a lottery ticket for such fabulous implied odds.

Not that folding here would be a terrible thing to do.
 
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Yeah I'm calling unless it's the tightest nit in the world who only raises with pocket 10's and above. Easiest fold ever in the history of folds at that point.

I personally also welcome and hope another player has called and I close out the betting. In my opinion it's better to have 2 other players in the hand for when I hit the flop......that way hopefully one of them has enough of the flop to wanna pay me off. Not much good hitting the flop with 98s with only 30bb unless you get paid off and double up. You need and wanna get max outta this situation.

Cheers!!!
 
Nesehorn156 said:
Say you're in the big blind with 98s and the button makes a small open. You have around 30BB.

Calling feels pretty natural to me, but if the same player makes it 3x instead, I start wondering if it's still worth getting involved.

How much does the raise size change your decision with hands like 98s?
Click to expand...
Equilab is a free tool that allows you to build a villains range and then see how much equity you have vs that range.
A good study exercise is to build 2 ranges s 2bb range and a 3 bb range and look at equity loss vs each range when you hold 98s.
then you can plug other hands like ATo into it and see how 98s compares with that hand -if you would consider playing ATo to a 3 bb open etc etc

🤔🤓
 
Semprini said:
I get what you are saying and it's often a good thought, but given suited connectors have maximum draw equity, or nut equity, an extra Villain in the pot just gives us better pot odds to see the flop.
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True, although my thought was that there were players left to act after us, in other words if others in middle position had limped, for example, and button open raises to 3x, then we aren't closing the action. Those limpers now have a choice to fold or... as sometimes happens.. they will now 3bet, because they were limping with a strong hand and can now cause problems.

I don't personally like when I am not closing the action on BB.
 
puzzlefish said:
True, although my thought was that there were players left to act after us, in other words if others in middle position had limped, for example, and button open raises to 3x, then we aren't closing the action. Those limpers now have a choice to fold or... as sometimes happens.. they will now 3bet, because they were limping with a strong hand and can now cause problems.

I don't personally like when I am not closing the action on BB.
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Absolutely. It's not at all a mistake to fold, especially if we have good reason to believe that someone will squeeze, fold is the best move. However, a high draw equity hand like 98s is a strong candidate to flat multiway with such good pot odds, much better than say ATo, if we feel so inclined.

I do agree with you and often do just fold a so-so hand when 2 players are willing to throw down chips before me, just let them go at it and wait for the carnage to sort out, but if my stack is healthy enough to afford the call, I'll usually buy a raffle ticket with my speculative hand like this. Check-folding 2.5 or 3bb is usually worth it for the chance to hit a monster and deliver a massive bad beat to more than 1 opponent.
 
This is why it's good sometimes to defend multi way when pot odds and implied odds are so enticing.

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I’d probably consider the position and stack sizes first. 98s can play really well, but I wouldn’t want to force the call from every position.
 
nitesss said:
I’d probably consider the position and stack sizes first. 98s can play really well, but I wouldn’t want to force the call from every position.
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In this example we know that we are on the BB. It's good to be thinking about stacks and position absolutely, but this is more about the situation than the hand itself. Stacks potentially matter a lot here. 30bb means that we will be check-folding a ton on this flop because to continue could end up putting us all-in at some point. Under 20bb we might fold more because calling an open with a high chance of giving up on the flop is getting expensive. However at say 60bb this becomes a very easy call since it's easily affordable and we will be deep enough to be playable on all future streets and easily call any reasonable c-bets or barrels.
 
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