MicroCrushers Thread!!!!!

[micromachine]

Just put us straight with this example Scourrgey.

I think we need to plan on getting more on the river than MM does (in order to at least BE on our implied odds turn call), for the reasons stated. Can you explain why this is or is not the case? No copy and pasting formulas, or sections of Wikipedia, just apply yourself to the example in this thread

Oops I wont be quoting Wikipedia again!

Ok, assuming this is the hand we are talking about???

On the turn, there is $3.96 in the pot, and we are contemplating calling $1.30. We assume zero FE OTT or OTR, and assume villain has us beat unless the board pairs OTR. For the board to pair we need an A, K, Q, or T to come (for simplicity sake I'll ignore when we river a J and split the pot). So that's 10 outs. 10/46 = 21.74% equity.

We have to call $1.30 into $3.96, so we need to be good 1.3/(1.3+3.96) = 24.71% of the time to break even on a call, assuming no more action on the river (and that we fold

So we cannot make the call if don't get any action on a river card. We know that we only have 21.74% equity, so to figure out how much $$ we need to go into the pot on the river when we pair the board, we solve:

0.2174 = 1.3/(1.3+3.96+X)

Where X is the amount we need to get in on the river to breakeven.

(1.3+3.96+X) = 1.3/0.2174
(5.26+X) = 5.98
X = 0.72

So we only need 72 more cents to go into the pot on the river. So if you think SB bets anything or will call a bet of any reasonable size at least a decent % of the time, this is a snap-call OTT.

Yeah I underestimated my equity slightly and i need villain to call even less OTR than I thought to make my turn call profitable. I used the 2 and 4 rule to get to 20% but now I remember than you should adjust by adding 1% for every out over 9 to make it more accurate, which would give 21% in this case. Still not quite 21.74% but I suppose 10 outs must be one of the times when the 2 and 4 rule is not super accurate even with the correction method.

 

[Cafeman]

Oops I wont be quoting Wikipedia again!

Consider yourself told lol

Yeah I underestimated my equity slightly and i need villain to call even less OTR than I thought to make my turn call profitable. I used the 2 and 4 rule to get to 20% but now I remember than you should adjust by adding 1% for every out over 9 to make it more accurate, which would give 21% in this case. Still not quite 21.74% but I suppose 10 outs must be one of the times when the 2 and 4 rule is not super accurate even with the correction method.

One of my old lecturers said, 2+2 is 4, but 5 is close enough most of the time.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Also ignore me when I randomly leave out parts of sentences...

 

[Yoshimiii]

Yeah I think i'm the same lol if someone bets 1/3 pot or less i'm generally calling if I have sdv unless they're like some 69/5 dude I'm thinking "meh he's got a bluff in him somewhere, i only need to be good 20% of the time! I call!! fml its the nuts :'("

Lol, I look for any excuse to call fish as well and exaggerate percentages like that, probably should stop doing it.

 

[orangepeeleo]

Just check your river call efficiency stat, or keep an eye on it. I think that the times I have them beat, like that AQ hand, make up for the times its the nuts, because of the small size of their bet probably.

 

[Cafeman]

Mine's 1.48 for this year, ~50k hands.

 

[micromachine]

What is that stat? And what does 1.48 mean

 

[Cafeman]

1 is BE on your river calls. You use HM2 or PT4? Either way you can add it to your stats to take a look. TBH if it's too high you probably aren't value raising enough.

EDIT: basically it's a ratio of how many dollars you won to how many you called with otr.

 

[micromachine]

So for every dollar you called OTR you won on average 1.48 dollars? And if that's the case then you win a lot of these showdowns and should be raising more rivers for value instead of calling?

Or have I got that completely wrong lol.

 

[Cafeman]

Like I said, if it's too high then you aren't value raising the river enough, mines about right though

Probs anything over 2 is what a nits would be lol

 

[Cafeman]

Look at it another way, some of those dollars are from bluff catching. We ain't gonna raise a river when we're bluff catching with a SD hand, well at least not very often anyhoo.

 

[micromachine]

Aye but bluff catches go wrong almost as often as they succeed lol.

So am I right in thinking you won on average 1.48 for every 1 you called?

Will check mine later if PT3 has it, it's prob stupidly high cos I'm a SD nit

 

[Cafeman]

Aye but bluff catches go wrong almost as often as they succeed lol.

Yeah and...? If half the time you call you're good, what's wrong with that? As long as it's not always the HUGE pots that you're bad for

So am I right in thinking you won on average 1.48 for every 1 you called?

Yes I believe that's what it means.

Will check mine later if PT3 has it, it's prob stupidly high cos I'm a SD nit

You may be being bluffed by regs more than you think then


Here's another scenario. Let's say we call OOP with AJs and flop TP. The PFR does the old bet/check/bet routine. It's probs a bit thin to raise the river there unless he's really gonna call with worse. We could raise, but it would be thin, and calling is fine without some other dynamic or something. Probs not the best example, but it's all I found down there while pulling something outta my arse lol

 

[Jurn8]

hello

 

[micromachine]

Hi Jake, good to see you back on CC

 

[Jurn8]

Hi Jake, good to see you back on CC

Hey bro, hopefully back on the grind now should be goot!

 

[Yoshimiii]

Hey bro, hopefully back on the grind now should be goot!

Hello!

 

[JOEBOB69]

Finally got a chance to watch Ducky's vid.
One train of thought he had that caught me off guard was,"i don't know this villain so when he 3bets i'm going to 4bet light".
Now if you have 0 or close to 0 hands on villains that means they are not reg's. Most fish only 3bet premium hands.Then you say he has to have QQ+,AK to continue,and i agree. On the other hand the only hands i see you raising him off of is AQ,TT,JJ,and maybe 99(which i think most would tend to call the first raise with TT,99 any how,and not 3bet.
^^
Does this make sense?

 

[micromachine]

Started a new villain colouring system. Mine was pretty simple before just having labels for TAG or nit regs (red) or fish (green) and needed an upgrade, so now I've got:

Red = nit
Orange = TAG
Purple = LAG
Green = Loose passive
Yellow = Tight passive
Light blue = maniac

Others I want are:
-Possible fish but not enough hands yet
-Loose semi passive (for the 36/16 types)
-Tight semi passive (for the 20/10 types)

But there aren't enough colours! I think I can only have two of these and not sure which more useful. Also my scheme doesn't distinguish between the loose passives...some of them are really awful and others are still awful but show up with decent hands if you get to showdown. Any advice for me?

 

[Yoshimiii]

There are enough colours btw, just only slightly different shades. Hover over that person when at the table to see what they are labeled.
My Labels:
Yellow - Solid Player
Green - Nit
Light blue - Fish
Dark blue - Tight/Passive
Red - Tight/Aggressive
Purple - Loose/Reckless
Orange - Loose/Aggressive
Dark green - Loose/Passive
Grey - Maniac

I didn't bother with a Tight/Reckless as I haven't seen this type of player yet.

Also I am gonna try $0.05/0.10 deep stack with ante's (seen as you can't do without antes) and I was wondering how do ante's affect the gameplay? Should I raise more PF and do ante's benefit the loose/aggresive guys more than the tight guys as there is more money each hand in the pot? Also I imagine there will be more stealing than normal.
Never played with ante's before and I am a little apprehensive about it ^^.

 

[micromachine]

Eh I'm pretty sure I don't have grey lol

Not sure about how to adjust to antes, steal a bit more I guess. I was more focused on adjusting my game to deep stacked play when I played those tables. You'll find quite LAGgy players in on the deep tables, lots of stealing and light 3betting going on, but unless they are fish the big showdowns are mostly monster hand vs monster hand.

 

[Cafeman]

Pokerstars? You can define any colour.

 

[micromachine]

Oh OK, I didn't look at it that closely. Can I add more labels than the default amount? Ideally I want 10

 

[Cafeman]

Yip

 

[Jackle43]

Donk Bets...
What do they usually mean from fish??
Happened so often the session I just had. I would be PFR and every flop I would get donked into. I usually just re raised them and they would fold (easy money)
but what does a donk bet usually mean?
Sad attempt at a bluff and steal the pot or weak mid pair or something?