***Mighty March Cash Game Chat Thread***

[TheDevilsLuck]

nah people dont pay much attention to that
and if they do they dont know what to make of it (weak or strong)

I swear there is something to it. Insta-raise and insta-turn bets scare people to death.

 

[TheDevilsLuck]

Or, nobody ever has anything ever. Which is probably the best option, but I like to think I'm right.

 

[LuckyChippy]

I think table ninja is hurting people folding to my c-bets because I bet so fast. I just love insta-betting 80% of the pot though lulz.

Bet sizing is one of the most important concepts and one of the biggest parts of your win-rate in NLHE. Second only to being able to accurately put opponents on a range imo. Auto cbetting 80% is a leak.

 

[Marginal]

I have just worked out how to use my sons xbox 360 controller on my pc and its fkin awesome... gg carpal tunnel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me know how to do this

 

[LuckyChippy]

Let me know how to do this

+1 that would be sick.

 

[LuckyChippy]

Dude I googled it and you litterarly just plug it in, why have I never thought of this? For a wireless one though you need to buy a wireless receiver.

http://www.brighthub.com/video-games/pc/articles/11612.aspx

 

[TheDevilsLuck]

Bet sizing is one of the most important concepts and one of the biggest parts of your win-rate in NLHE. Second only to being able to accurately put opponents on a range imo. Auto cbetting 80% is a leak.

I don't see why you would think 80% on the flop is ever a leak. You'd have to have some ridiculous read of some kind. Like, oh if I bet small than he will all-in jam. It's the flop. It's almost as standard as your pre-flop moves. Which if you say a same bet on the flop is a leak, then it is just as much a leak pre. And you probably do the same 4x blah blah this and that pre, so I don't see why it matters at all.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Matters a ton.

You hold 33 on a 55T board. Why bet 80% when 50% or a little more will get almost all the same hands to fold.

You hold 33 on a 3KA board against a bad passive player. Why bet 80% when he'll call pot or even larger?

You hold 9Ts on an a 678r board against a nit who called from the BTN. Why bet 80% when checking is the only way he's going to put more money in without a set?

The list goes on and on. Just stop and think about your cbet size before you click bet. 80% might be a fine starting point but you shouldn't ALWAYS bet that amount.

 

[ChuckTs]

It matters a ton. The difference in size may be tiny, but the fact that you're cbetting in most of the pots you're in means it adds up quickly. Not considering your sizing IS a big leak. Not to say that %80 is necessarily bad, but you're probably leaving too much dead money on the table in lots of spots by betting %80 rather than 1/2-2/3 pot as a default.

Why not make it %100 pot every time? The size difference doesn't matter right? What about %120 pot?

Hey, your government just increased taxes by %50. Shouldn't matter, right?



xbox: I completely forgot they're just usb, that's awesome. Can't find my controllers from my old busted 360 though, damn :/

 

[fx20736]

I don't see why you would think 80% on the flop is ever a leak. You'd have to have some ridiculous read of some kind. Like, oh if I bet small than he will all-in jam. It's the flop. It's almost as standard as your pre-flop moves. Which if you say a same bet on the flop is a leak, then it is just as much a leak pre. And you probably do the same 4x blah blah this and that pre, so I don't see why it matters at all.

At least at Micros c-betting is a big part of winrate. I c-bet about 70% but there are times I don't do it;

• I don't like to c-bet MW pots when I whiff with AK (although sometimes I do it so automatically I don't realize there's more than 2 people in the hand right away).
• if an Ace hits the flop and it likely hit villain's caling range i don't c-bet. Bad/loose players love to cold call with Ax. On the other hand nits rarely call with Aces (they raise them) with the possible exception of small suited Aces (if they're bad nits). So repping the A is fine against tighter players who actually think about what you might have and probably assume you have AK or better.
• Again if villain is a calling station no sense calling with AK if you whiff. They are more likely to have hit the flop than you and if they miss they won't likely bet anyway so you'll get the free card. No sense betting when only a hand that has you beat will call.

Otherwise I c-bet HU pots.

The situation I most am trying to resolve is how to bet on highly coordinated boards. If I open raise AA and the flop comes down 9c8c5d I am torn between bettiing big to price them out on a draw and just check/calling one street. I think the problem is that on a board that coordinated it is hard to push someone off their draw as if they have any brain at all they're thinking $$ implied odds vs. the nit. Maybe the best thing to do here is check/call and if the turn is a brick bet out or check/fold if makes the board even wetter.

I think we need WV and/or Stu to chime in on this!

 

[LuckyChippy]

You bastards got there before I could finish constructing this lovely post. Anyways, if you're betting the same in these two spots it's a leak.

full tilt poker $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1236339
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BB: $6.59
UTG: $5.07
MP: $9.28
CO: $5.00
Hero (BTN): $5.23
SB: $6.72

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is BTN with A :heart: A :diamond:
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.20, 1 fold, BB calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.42) A :club: T :spade: K :club: (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets ?


Full Tilt Poker $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1236339
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BB: $6.59
UTG: $5.07
MP: $9.28
CO: $5.00
Hero (BTN): $5.23
SB: $6.72

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is BTN with 7 :heart: 8 :heart:
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.20, 1 fold, BB calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.42) K :diamond: 4 :spade: 4 :club: (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets ?

 

[LuckyChippy]

It matters a ton. The difference in size may be tiny, but the fact that you're cbetting in most of the pots you're in means it adds up quickly. Not considering your sizing IS a big leak. Not to say that %80 is necessarily bad, but you're probably leaving too much dead money on the table in lots of spots by betting %80 rather than 1/2-2/3 pot as a default.

Why not make it %100 pot every time? The size difference doesn't matter right? What about %120 pot?

Hey, your government just increased taxes by %50. Should matter, right?



xbox: I completely forgot they're just usb, that's awesome. Can't find my controllers from my old busted 360 though, damn :/

Lol me too what the hell?

 

[WVHillbilly]

Matters a ton.

It matters a ton.

Pretty sure the consensus is that it matters about 2000 pounds worth.

 

[LuckyChippy]

The situation I most am trying to resolve is how to bet on highly coordinated boards. If I open raise AA and the flop comes down 9c8c5d I am torn between bettiing big to price them out on a draw and just check/calling one street. I think the problem is that on a board that coordinated it is hard to push someone off their draw as if they have any brain at all they're thinking $$ implied odds vs. the nit. Maybe the best thing to do here is check/call and if the turn is a brick bet out or check/fold if makes the board even wetter.

I think we need WV and/or Stu to chime in on this!

C-bet everytime if you think they're drawing (which you should) and cbet it big. They will call and you're ahead right now so make them pay. Ch/c is the worst thing you can do. Obv if the draws hit then you need to re-evaluate and fold.

 

[TheDevilsLuck]

I guess I deserved this somewhat from you guys. I wasn't claiming I do it on every flop I have a chance to bet at.

Matters a ton.

You hold 33 on a 55T board. Why bet 80% when 50% or a little more will get almost all the same hands to fold. This one is fair.

You hold 33 on a 3KA board against a bad passive player. Why bet 80% when he'll call pot or even larger? I don't see why this one matters that much. If he is bad and passive, on a board like that, once he calls the 80% am I not just counting the rest of his stack anyways?

You hold 9Ts on an a 678r board against a nit who called from the BTN. Why bet 80% when checking is the only way he's going to put more money in without a set? This one isn't fair.... I do check.

The list goes on and on. Just stop and think about your cbet size before you click bet. 80% might be a fine starting point but you shouldn't ALWAYS bet that amount.

I do see the big picture of the point though. I just generally liked to keep things the same on something that felt fairly standard just in case someone was paying attention.

 

[fx20736]

You bastards got there before I could finish constructing this lovely post. Anyways, if you're betting the same in these two spots it's a leak.

Full Tilt Poker $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1236339
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BB: $6.59
UTG: $5.07
MP: $9.28
CO: $5.00
Hero (BTN): $5.23
SB: $6.72

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is BTN with A ♥ A ♦
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.20, 1 fold, BB calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.42) A ♣ T ♠ K ♣ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets ?


Full Tilt Poker $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1236339
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BB: $6.59
UTG: $5.07
MP: $9.28
CO: $5.00
Hero (BTN): $5.23
SB: $6.72

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is BTN with 7 ♥ 8 ♥
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.20, 1 fold, BB calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.42) K ♦ 4 ♠ 4 ♣ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets ?

Hand # 1 I could not hit the shove button fast enough get every last penny instantly.

Hand # 2 bet 1/2 pot

 

[fx20736]

C-bet everytime if you think they're drawing (which you should) and cbet it big. They will call and you're ahead right now so make them pay. Ch/c is the worst thing you can do. Obv if the draws hit then you need to re-evaluate and fold.

So are you double barrelling the turn if it is another Club or a 7?

 

[ChuckTs]

 

[fx20736]

I guess I deserved this somewhat from you guys. I wasn't claiming I do it on every flop I have a chance to bet at.



I do see the big picture of the point though. I just generally liked to keep things the same on something that felt fairly standard just in case someone was paying attention.

Also I have learned the hard way that when you have a big hand on a scary board your bet size really cannot be too big.

Take Chippy's AA on an AcTsKc board. Villain either hit that flop or he didn't and there is no upside to pricing him in. If villain has AK AQ AJ AT KQ KJ he isn't going anywhere. Only QJ beats you but all the other Broadway combos and Flush draws can catch up easily. I'm at work so I can't stove it but of the possible 54 Broadway combos here 16 have you beat (QJ) and you have great equity against the other 38. AK/AT at best can draw to a split pot otherwise you have 99% equity against those two. Against AQ/AJ I think you have 84% equity, same with KQ & KJ. Add in 6 reasonable non Broadway Flush Draws and I think you should have ~ 62% equity against all of that so I say shove.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Also I have learned the hard way that when you have a big hand on a scary board your bet size really cannot be too big.

Take Chippy's AA on an AcTsKc board. Villain either hit that flop or he didn't and there is no upside to pricing him in. If villain has AK AQ AJ AT KQ KJ he isn't going anywhere. Only QJ beats you but all the other Broadway combos and Flush draws can catch up easily. I'm at work so I can't stove it but of the possible 54 Broadway combos here 16 have you beat (QJ) and you have great equity against the other 38. AK/AT at best can draw to a split pot otherwise you have 99% equity against those two. Against AQ/AJ I think you have 84% equity, same with KQ & KJ. Add in 6 reasonable non Broadway Flush Draws and I think you should have ~ 62% equity against all of that so I say shove.

Really? You think shoving $5 into a 40 cent pot is the best way to go here? Don't make ChuckTs post a double facepalm. Tell me you're kidding right?

 

[TheDevilsLuck]

You guys have got me interested. So what are the 1/2 situations or 2/3 situations so on. Or is it more of a types of players bet? Also isn't half pot basically my pfr. Doesn't that feel a little awkward?

 

[WVHillbilly]

Ace high boards are prime candidates for smaller cbets (whether you hold an Ace or not) because the Ace is such a scare card for most opponents. They're going to play very straight forward in general on Ace high boards.

There are some exceptions though depending on opponent type. Against floaters or stations you can bet bigger on Ace high boards when you have an Ace because they're likely to call anyway. Against nits you can bet even smaller (~1/3 pot) because if they play back at you TP is rarely good anyway.

Another general type rule is to cbet smaller on dry board and larger on wet ones.

 

[fx20736]

Really? You think shoving $5 into a 40 cent pot is the best way to go here? Don't make ChuckTs post a double facepalm. Tell me you're kidding right?

So you're going to bet pot? if he re-raises does he have the straight or is he on the draw or does he have a smaller set? How can you possibly be sure? And how many chips do you invest before you decide you're beat? If villain has set of Kings or Tens he obv thinks he has the best hand, ditto if he AK. If he is only a flush draw a pot sized bet isn't going to do it. If you bet pot, get called, pot the turn and get re-raised you will never know if you laid down the best hand.

Also note: I forgot to add QQ & JJ to the range I estimated above. By adding those two plus QT on that board AA has 80% equity (Just got home and stoved it)

So why wouldn't I shove here?????//

 

[xdeucesx]

wvu played solid against clemson, good start for the bracket

 

[WVHillbilly]

So you're going to bet pot? if he re-raises does he have the straight or is he on the draw or does he have a smaller set? How can you possibly be sure? And how many chips do you invest before you decide you're beat? If villain has set of Kings or Tens he obv thinks he has the best hand, ditto if he AK. If he is only a flush draw a pot sized bet isn't going to do it. If you bet pot, get called, pot the turn and get re-raised you will never know if you laid down the best hand.

Also note: I forgot to add QQ & JJ to the range I estimated above. By adding those two plus QT on that board AA has 80% equity (Just got home and stoved it)

So why wouldn't I shove here?????//

You shouldn't shove here because you like money. Pot is fine, maybe a little less. If he raises, great, we can 3bet. Against the hand you seem to be so scared of (QJ) we still have 38% equity. Against exactly QJcc we have 33%. We're crushing his range and not all the hands in that range are going to call if we shove. You think QQ/JJ call a shove? He can't have many Ax hands because there is only 1 Ace left in the deck. So we want a hand like KQ/KJ to call, not fold. We want him to think he has FE with his draws and shove over us. If you're shoving here it's really costing you a ton of value.