Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

[or3o1990]

We had great sweat session last night. Played about 500 hands and even mixed in a 6max table and did well there. Ended up winning about 75 dollars. I played another 500 hands after you'd left Fig and was able to make some big hands and get paid off nicely. Finished the evening up about 400. I'll post a few hands here later.

What are the factors that you should consider when playing poker, you think come in a variety of analysis?

There are too many factors to list! But it would help if you could be a little more specific. If you have a moment go to the beginning of this thread and download John's free e-book Polished Poker. He goes over the dynamics of cash game play and concepts like position, bet sizing, table image, tilt control and everything in between.

 

[Figaroo2]

turning 10's into a bluff

Smashed and tilted again tonight, this is the only hand I managed to win and this is a bit dubious. at least I managed to shut down after the first tilt call.

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $27.56 (110.2 bb)
BB: $30.21 (120.8 bb)
UTG+2: $27 (108 bb)
MP1: $33.99 (136 bb)
MP2: $25.35 (101.4 bb) very good reg. 14% from MP
MP3: $16.26 (65 bb)
Hero (CO): $25.35 (101.4 bb)
BTN: $49.63 (198.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T:diamond: T:club:
2 folds, MP2 raises to $0.62, MP3 folds, Hero calls $0.62, 3 folds

Flop: ($1.59) 6:spade: 6:diamond: 8:spade: (2 players)
MP2 bets $1, Hero raises to $2.50, MP2 calls $1.50

Turn: ($6.59) 4:diamond: (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks

River: ($6.59) 8:heart: (2 players)
MP2 bets $3.75, Hero raises to $14, MP2 folds

Results: $14.09 pot ($0.63 rake)
Final Board: 6:spade: 6:diamond: 8:spade: 4:diamond: 8:heart:
MP2 mucked and lost (-$6.87 net)
Hero mucked T:diamond: T:club: and won $13.46 ($6.59 net)

 

[Figaroo2]

We had great sweat session last night. Played about 500 hands and even mixed in a 6max table and did well there. Ended up winning about 75 dollars. I played another 500 hands after you'd left Fig and was able to make some big hands and get paid off nicely. Finished the evening up about 400. I'll post a few hands here later..

Well done! I enjoyed the session as well.

 

[Figaroo2]

Already tilted by previous hands. Stopped immediately after this. This villain had 3 bet me 3 times in 30 hands from the CO or button and was annoying me. Then when I have a hand he flats!

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players

SB: $25.25 (101 bb)
BB: $19.41 (77.6 bb)
MP1: $27.01 (108 bb)
MP2: $28.63 (114.5 bb)
Hero (MP3): $25 (100 bb)
CO: $25 (100 bb) tight reg who has 3bet me three times in 30 hands
BTN: $36.79 (147.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K♣ K♥
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, CO calls $0.75, 3 folds

Flop: ($1.85) 3♠ J♥ 6♦ (2 players)
Hero bets $1.32, CO calls $1.32

Turn: ($4.49) 5♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $2.75, Hero calls $2.75
I was going to check raise this but then when you are running bad you know they always seem to have it.
So I forced myself to lead out on the river so as not to miss some value, intending to fold to a shove

River: ($9.99) 9♣ (2 players)
Hero bets $4.77, CO raises to $20.18 and is all-in, Hero calls $15.41 and is all-in.
where were my good intentions!!!

Results: $50.35 pot ($2.00 rake)
Final Board: 3♠ J♥ 6♦ 5♥ 9♣
Hero showed K♣ K♥ and lost (-$25 net)
CO showed J♠ J♣ and won $48.35 ($23.35 net)

 

[John A]

Too thin?

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $12.30 (49.2 bb) 19/12/34 in 568 hands marked as a decent half stacker.
BB: $31.56 (126.2 bb)
UTG+1: $25.25 (101 bb)
UTG+2: $36.39 (145.6 bb)
MP1: $19.75 (79 bb)
MP2: $18.92 (75.7 bb)
Hero (MP3): $25.95 (103.8 bb)
CO: $10.53 (42.1 bb)
BTN: $25.77 (103.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J♠ J♣
UTG+1 raises to $0.62, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.62, 2 folds, SB calls $0.52, BB folds

Flop: ($2.11) A♥ J♦ 7♦ (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $1.51, SB calls $1.51, UTG+1 folds

Turn: ($5.13) 8♦ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.50, SB calls $2.50

River: ($10.13) T♣ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8

No, but I'd bet a smaller amount to widen his calling range. If you bet large here without a meta reason for doing so, then you're just inviting to make most of his calling range hands that beat you. So something like 1/2 pot or smaller is more appropriate.

 

[John A]

Giving up ok?
Anyone firing two bullets against someone this tight?

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $32.92 (131.7 bb)
BB: $28.48 (113.9 bb)
UTG+1: $54.17 (216.7 bb)
Hero (UTG+2): $29.80 (119.2 bb)
MP1: $26.01 (104 bb)
MP2: $28.35 (113.4 bb)
MP3: $27.28 (109.1 bb)
CO: $25 (100 bb)
BTN: $25 (100 bb) 13/9/35 in 95 hands. Tight and has a silly 28% button 3bet stat but not that many hands so meh.

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A♥ K♠
UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 4 folds, BTN raises to $2.20, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5.75, BTN calls $3.55

Flop: ($11.85) T♥ T♦ 8♥ (2 players)
Hero bets $5.66, BTN calls $5.66

Turn: ($23.17) 9♦ (2 players)
Hero?

Yeah, in a 4-bet pot against someone like this on this flop OOP I'm probably not even firing. You just have more combos of hands that will continue on this flop to a c-bet, than hands you can fold out. I mean, maybe you can add some AQs in there because of the 4-bet sizing, but even still I think he'll also check behind enough to not warrant a bet.

Ace Poker Drills Poker Equity Calculator
Board: Th Td 8h

equity Win Tie Hand Range
30.77% 15.4545% 15.3139% [Ah Ks]
69.23% 53.9177% 15.3139% [TT+(100), AKs(100), AKo(100),]

 

[John A]

Short stacks tilt me...

Here this particular shortie was playing any and every two. The entire table was a limpfest mostly. But we're pretty much just playing pair poker right? Sometimes we're just going to walk into it or what?

PokerStars - $1 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 24.25 BB
SB: 28.15 BB
BB: 23.25 BB
UTG: 122 BB
UTG+1: 102.55 BB
MP: 114 BB
MP+1: 100.4 BB
Hero (MP+2): 101.05 BB
CO: 19.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♠ 9♠

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (9.5 BB, 3 players) J♦ A♦ T♠
BB checks, Hero bets 6 BB, BTN calls 6 BB, fold

Turn: (21.5 BB, 2 players) 3♥
Hero bets 16 BB, BTN calls 15.25 BB and is all-in

River: (52 BB, 2 players) 4♦

BTN shows K♣ Q♣ (Straight, Ace High)
(Pre 43%, Flop 92%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows A♠ 9♠ (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 57%, Flop 8%, Turn 0%)
BTN wins 49.4 BB

Yeah, standard based on stack size and opponent.

I really wanted to call this one but whenever he has qj I feel retarded. I tanked for a minute then I opted to go away..

PokerStars - $1 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (CO): 108.65 BB
BTN: 211.32 BB
SB: 107.25 BB
BB: 38.66 BB
UTG: 98 BB
UTG+1: 97.19 BB
MP: 56.29 BB
MP+1: 29 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♣ Q♦

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (9.5 BB, 3 players) Q♣ 4♠ J♣
BB checks, Hero bets 6 BB, fold, BB raises to 35.66 BB and is all-in, fold

BB shows J♠ 9♠ (One Pair, Jacks)

BB wins 20.45 BB

You have to consider the competition. Bad players are bad players for a reason. You can profitably call this for what you have invested. But here's the most important point for you in order to learn and grow...

Never ever ever ever "feel retarded" for making the right call based on someone's range, and them turning out to be at the top of that range and you're behind.

You analyze the situation, put your opponents on a RANGE, and then make the best play. You being behind or ahead is inconsequential, except for the impact it has on your poker bankroll. Just make the best play.

 

[or3o1990]

I felt like I was ahead of his range and I wanted to call it off but I guess I was just tilted at the time and it caused me to take the more conservative line. His stack size made it weird for me too. I feel like if it's 15bb less I snap call if it's 15bb more it's an easier fold. I've been having some problems with that. Especially when I'm in a multi-way pot with varying stacks.

 

[John A]

I felt like I was ahead of his range and I wanted to call it off but I guess I was just tilted at the time and it caused me to take the more conservative line. His stack size made it weird for me too. I feel like if it's 15bb less I snap call if it's 15bb more it's an easier fold. I've been having some problems with that. Especially when I'm in a multi-way pot with varying stacks.

Gotcha.. but find me a range of hands where you think this makes it close:

http://www.acepokersolutions.com/APD_equity_calculator.html

 

[or3o1990]

I didn't think he's shoving straight draws just pairs and flush draws. So something like AQ, KQ, JQ, JJ, and Q8+ which put me at 56%. Throw in all of his flush draws K high or better and it's bumps me up to 72%.. I didn't expect he'd be shoving a lonely J here at all.

 

[or3o1990]

I updated my pt4 yesterday and now my HUD color ranges aren't working? Anyone else having this problem or know how I can fix it?

 

[hutzpaf]

I updated my pt4 yesterday and now my HUD color ranges aren't working? Anyone else having this problem or know how I can fix it?

Yes, same problem here too. Try the previous update.
here some info https://www.pokertracker.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=59372

 

[or3o1990]

Ok, I see what's going on. This must be in response to the issue they had with that SNG calculator or whatever.. I've got to start reading the updates before running them. How can I find the previous update?

 

[rhombus]

I updated my pt4 yesterday and now my HUD color ranges aren't working? Anyone else having this problem or know how I can fix it?

Isnt it to do with restrictions that are being imposed on HUDS about maximising number of colours

 

[rhombus]

Well, your numbers look better. Maybe 3-bet is too high. But you're just not winning at showdown still. Small sample, but I'd keep making this kind of adjustment a little while longer and keep posting spots where you're making those adjustments, but not sure if it was the best play. Anything that's questionable. You can just flip on a switch and make it happen, but I think you're moving in the correction direction.

1c2c Zoom 6Max Update

up to 25k hands now and finally in profit although still running bad
$EV diff now $35.32 and on cash graph All-In EV $43.78.

Good thing, even when I had a few coolers and lost flips when Fav I haven't tilted, guess alot easier when its really small stakes

Since 1st 5K hands
3Bet still too high
WTSD% too high
W$SD% could be higher

3Bet is easy to sort out but struggling with WTSD% and W$SD% even though for last 10K hands Ive been not calling down as light and check raising more

But on the + side Agg and Agg% is getting better

 

[hutzpaf]

Ok, I see what's going on. How can I find the previous update?

Older version of PT4. Hope this help you.
https://www.pokertracker.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=59313

 

[or3o1990]

Isnt it to do with restrictions that are being imposed on HUDS about maximising number of colours

Yeah that's exactly what they did. I think they updated the software rules in response to a SNG equity calculator people had been using that a lot of people claim gave an unfair advantage to the people using it.. The lame thing is that the color restrictions in my opinion only hurts the mass tablers.

I sometimes get a little tilted when I'm put in weird spots and don't know what to do. I don't usually get tilted from bad beats but I know running bad will wear on anyone. When people do suck out you've just got to appreciate that they gave you a good shot at their money. That's all we can ask of them. "Emotion-Based Poker" and "The Mental Game of Poker" are good reads if you think you need work in that area.

Older version of PT4. Hope this help you.

Thanks a ton! I don't play on stars so no harm there.

 

[John A]

I didn't think he's shoving straight draws just pairs and flush draws. So something like AQ, KQ, JQ, JJ, and Q8+ which put me at 56%. Throw in all of his flush draws K high or better and it's bumps me up to 72%.. I didn't expect he'd be shoving a lonely J here at all.

Yeah, I'd add a couple of more hands, but as you can see, it's not super close really. That's the important take away. And don't worry about being wrong when he's at the top of that range.

 

[John A]

Ok, I see what's going on. This must be in response to the issue they had with that SNG calculator or whatever.. I've got to start reading the updates before running them. How can I find the previous update?

This is related to the pokerstars software changes. So if you're using the bovada card catcher, it's using pokerstars site configs and hands to import into PT4. We've been converting to a new site format since they officially changed this over. I expect some first beta's to be done next week. In the meantime, you can just use the previous version of PT4, as was suggested. Here's the latest card catcher link also:

http://www.acepokersolutions.com/Poker-forum/#/discussion/17/v2-05-4-bovada-card-catcher-update

 

[John A]

1c2c Zoom 6Max Update

up to 25k hands now and finally in profit although still running bad
$EV diff now $35.32 and on cash graph All-In EV $43.78.

Good thing, even when I had a few coolers and lost flips when Fav I haven't tilted, guess alot easier when its really small stakes

Since 1st 5K hands
3Bet still too high
WTSD% too high
W$SD% could be higher

3Bet is easy to sort out but struggling with WTSD% and W$SD% even though for last 10K hands Ive been not calling down as light and check raising more

But on the + side Agg and Agg% is getting better

Well, the numbers are looking better. 3-bet is plenty ok. You don't want to go overboard there. Aggression is slowly getting there. Something that will help is actually cutting down a few of your hands. I'd like to see your VPIP get down just a tiny bit and your pfr up slightly. Work on reducing this gap a little by cold calling less. Something like 23/29 or 22/18 would be much better for you. This will help wtsd and w$sd by default.

But don't just arbitrarily check-raise more. You can use stop and go, like is discussed in polished poker. You can bluff raise more in position in spots where you have some decent back door equity but no hand yet. But don't over do it... you're play 2nl, so you don't want to get too fancy. You mainly get your aggression up by thinking in terms of, "how do :I take control of this hand?", and if I can't, then don't get involved, unless you're trapping.

 

[or3o1990]

Probably the single most satisfying hand of poker I've ever played! Bye bye short stacks hahaha!!

PokerStars - $1 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 23 BB
BTN: 32 BB
SB: 97.5 BB
BB: 30 BB
Hero (UTG): 141.05 BB
UTG+1: 30.71 BB
MP: 221.28 BB
MP+1: 19.1 BB
MP+2: 101.3 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♠ A♥

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, MP+1 calls 3 BB, fold, CO raises to 12 BB, BTN calls 12 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 141.05 BB and is all-in, MP+1 calls 16.1 BB and is all-in, CO calls 11 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 20 BB and is all-in

Flop: (107.6 BB, 4 players) T♥ 3♥ A♠

Turn: (107.6 BB, 4 players) 8♠

River: (107.6 BB, 4 players) 8♦

CO shows Q♠ Q♣ (Two Pair, Queens and Eights)

Main Pot [77.9 BB]: (Pre 40%, Flop 8%, Turn 5%)
Side Pot#1 [11.7 BB]: (Pre 47%, Flop 8%, Turn 5%)

BTN shows J♠ 3♠ (Two Pair, Eights and Threes)

Main Pot [77.9 BB]: (Pre 11%, Flop 12%, Turn 23%)
Side Pot#1 [11.7 BB]: (Pre 15%, Flop 21%, Turn 29%)
Side Pot#2 [18 BB]: (Pre 35%, Flop 21%, Turn 30%)

Hero shows K♠ A♥ (Two Pair, Aces and Eights)

Main Pot [77.9 BB]: (Pre 36%, Flop 66%, Turn 65%)
Side Pot#1 [11.7 BB]: (Pre 38%, Flop 71%, Turn 67%)
Side Pot#2 [18 BB]: (Pre 65%, Flop 79%, Turn 70%)

MP+1 shows T♣ J♦ (Two Pair, Tens and Eights)

Main Pot [77.9 BB]: (Pre 12%, Flop 14%, Turn 8%)

Hero wins 104.6 BB


On a more serious note. I've been a lot more diligent lately in making sure I can get my stack in by the river with my monsters but I've managed to scare a few people off this evening with pot sized river bets. Is it better to try and make the pot bigger than stacks by the river against certain types of players? I feel like good players may know what I'm doing and weaker players might be scared off??

I made a min rereaise here because I feel like these donk bets are usually not top pair, they're usually second pair or a pocket pair and I didn't want to scare away a J. I felt confident he had one and would pay me off but he must have had a pp or k with a 10 or worse.

PokerStars - $1 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 30 BB
UTG: 97.5 BB
UTG+1: 98.5 BB
Hero (MP): 101.55 BB
MP+1: 31.71 BB
CO: 191.68 BB
BTN: 19.1 BB
SB: 101.8 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8♠ 8♦

UTG calls 1 BB, fold, Hero raises to 5 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 4 BB

Flop: (11.5 BB, 2 players) K♥ 8♣ J♦
UTG bets 8 BB, Hero raises to 16 BB, UTG calls 8 BB

Turn: (43.5 BB, 2 players) J♥
UTG checks, Hero bets 20 BB, UTG calls 20 BB

River: (83.5 BB, 2 players) 5♦
UTG checks, Hero raises to 60.55 BB and is all-in, fold

Hero wins 80.5 BB

 

[Figaroo2]

Re 88 hand. Big hand big pot so we can bump the turn sizing up especially if he's drawing. If he calls 20 he probably calls 25.
I'm out of commission at the moment 15 hour days at work so not currently playing and likely to run into next week. Even if Hours reduce iI'll be tired and need some recoup time.

 

[rhombus]

2 Deep stacked hands from tonight.
Hand 1. keep running into this position alot when UTG raises and I have 88 99 TT and even JJ. another story had QQ later on and ran into Aces lol

When utg raises and you have a hand like 66-TT is it best to keep it simple, just call and get to showdown but fold to a double barrel

Hand 2 to be honest not sure how to play maybe just call his rasie for Pot Control as unlikely to win a big pot even in position, Think I completeely messed it up

Hand 1
Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $2 (100 bb)
BB: $1.91 (95.5 bb)
UTG: $2.58 (129 bb)
MP: $3.51 (175.5 bb)
CO: $2.37 (118.5 bb)
Hero (BTN): $2.85 (142.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 8

8

UTG raises to $0.04, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.12, 2 folds, UTG raises to $0.32, Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.67) 9

9

J

(2 players)
UTG bets $0.32, Hero raises to $0.64, UTG raises to $2.26 and is all-in, Hero calls $1.62

Turn: ($5.19) J

(2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($5.19) 6

(2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: $5.19 pot ($0.18 rake)
Final Board: 9

9

J

J

6

UTG showed A

A

and won $5.01 ($2.43 net)
Hero showed 8

8

and lost (-$2.58 net)

Hand 2
Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $4.78 (239 bb)
Hero (BB): $3.69 (184.5 bb)
UTG: $2.25 (112.5 bb)
MP: $2.81 (140.5 bb)
CO: $3.12 (156 bb)
BTN: $2.42 (121 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T

T

4 folds, SB raises to $0.06, Hero raises to $0.18, SB raises to $0.54, Hero calls $0.36

Flop: ($1.08) 2

J

3

(2 players)
SB bets $0.88, Hero raises to $1.76, SB raises to $4.24, Hero calls $1.39

Turn: ($7.38) K

(2 players)
River: ($7.38) J

(2 players)

Results: $7.38 pot ($0.26 rake)
Final Board: 2

J

3

K

J

SB showed A

A

and won $7.12 ($3.43 net)
Hero showed T

T

and lost (-$3.69 net)

 

[Figaroo2]

Rhom . Mmmm these appear to me to be two clear examples of where you should be letting the hand go earlier rather than getting to showdown.
On the 88 hand we are facing utg and likely a stronger range. Personally I'm just flatting pre to avoid exactly the scenario that occurs. The last thing I want is to be 4 bet and have to let it go. I think flatting a 4bet with 88 should only occur when very deep even then I'm here not happy about it. You weren't deep enough and it's really a fold to an utg 4bet but like I said avoid this by flatting.
Once you have called and are in the hand one problem follows another. Utg is still firing but you then used a quarter of your chips on a flop raise with no idea if you're ahead. After he shoves the flop as played it should be an instant fold, this is never a bluff at these stakes and in response your flop raise.
Your flop raise is super ambitious and gets information and might take down his Ax hands so I don't mind it as pplayed but you have to fold to his flop shove.....We only have 3rd pair and all the money is going in.

 

[Figaroo2]

The TT hand is different with it being b on b but again the flop raise is imo too ambitious with just 2nd pair and you priced yourself in with it. Preflop is okay but we are WA/wb so just call on the flop and see if he checks the turn if not fold to the turn bet. 4bet and two barrels is enough evidence to lay down TT against all but a maniac.