Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

[or3o1990]

You are.

I appreciate the sweat today John. Any thought on this turn bet?



iPoker - $1 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 25.32, PFR: 12.66, 3Bet Preflop: 3.57, hands: 80)
SB: 159.55 BB (VPIP: 7.32, PFR: 7.32, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 125)
BB: 90.9 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
UTG: 110.75 BB (VPIP: 42.31, PFR: 19.23, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 26)
UTG+1: 124.18 BB (VPIP: 26.26, PFR: 7.07, 3Bet Preflop: 2.50, Hands: 102)
MP: 105.9 BB (VPIP: 12.24, PFR: 8.16, 3Bet Preflop: 5.26, Hands: 49)
MP+1: 81.88 BB (VPIP: 6.25, PFR: 6.25, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)
Hero (CO): 120.41 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♥ T♥

fold, UTG+1 calls 1 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 5 BB, fold, SB calls 4.5 BB, BB calls 4 BB, fold

Flop: (16 BB, 3 players) 8♠ T♦ Q♣
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 10 BB, fold, BB calls 10 BB

Turn: (36 BB, 2 players) 2♣
BB checks, Hero bets 18 BB, BB raises to 46 BB, fold

BB wins 97 BB

 

[John A]

I appreciate the sweat today John. Any thought on this turn bet?



iPoker - $1 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 25.32, PFR: 12.66, 3Bet Preflop: 3.57, Hands: 80)
SB: 159.55 BB (VPIP: 7.32, PFR: 7.32, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 125)
BB: 90.9 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
UTG: 110.75 BB (VPIP: 42.31, PFR: 19.23, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 26)
UTG+1: 124.18 BB (VPIP: 26.26, PFR: 7.07, 3Bet Preflop: 2.50, Hands: 102)
MP: 105.9 BB (VPIP: 12.24, PFR: 8.16, 3Bet Preflop: 5.26, Hands: 49)
MP+1: 81.88 BB (VPIP: 6.25, PFR: 6.25, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)
Hero (CO): 120.41 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♥ T♥

fold, UTG+1 calls 1 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 5 BB, fold, SB calls 4.5 BB, BB calls 4 BB, fold

Flop: (16 BB, 3 players) 8♠ T♦ Q♣
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 10 BB, fold, BB calls 10 BB

Turn: (36 BB, 2 players) 2♣
BB checks, Hero bets 18 BB, BB raises to 46 BB, fold

BB wins 97 BB

You're welcome of course. Always good talking to you and getting some poker strategy in. It's a lot easier than just these forums.

If it wasn't MW on the flop, the bet is standard. I'd make it 20-21 though. But I think w/o info and position it's better to just take the free card and see what he does on the river. There's not enough worse hands now in his range that you don't already dominate. You have Qx, combo draws, two pairs, a straight and at least 1 set, maybe 2.

 

[rhombus]

Last year, snap call especially as they are aggressive, but then what are they bluffing with that I beat maybe suited rag like As4s,

poker stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $18.08 (180.8 bb)
Hero (BB): $10 (100 bb)
UTG: $12.15 (121.5 bb)26/16 53% AGG 43 Hands
MP: $15.39 (153.9 bb)
CO: $10 (100 bb)
BTN: $18.95 (189.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

J

UTG raises to $0.30, MP folds, CO calls $0.30, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.95) A

5

7

(3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.60, CO folds, Hero calls $0.60

Turn: ($2.15) Q

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.37, Hero calls $1.37

River: ($4.89) T

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $3.50,

 

[Figaroo2]

Last year, snap call especially as they are aggressive, but then what are they bluffing with that I beat maybe suited rag like As4s,

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $18.08 (180.8 bb)
Hero (BB): $10 (100 bb)
UTG: $12.15 (121.5 bb)26/16 53% AGG 43 Hands
MP: $15.39 (153.9 bb)
CO: $10 (100 bb)
BTN: $18.95 (189.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

J

UTG raises to $0.30, MP folds, CO calls $0.30, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.95) A

5

7

(3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.60, CO folds, Hero calls $0.60

Turn: ($2.15) Q

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.37, Hero calls $1.37
River: ($4.89) T

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $3.50,

This is going to happen a lot if you call in this spot with an ace dominated by the utg range.
three barrels is enough to convince me that he has a better ace or two pairs. I fold.
His pfr is only 16% so utg there is plenty of AK AQ here.
The question for me is does anyone else have a different way of playing this?

Like on the turn? If we are intending to call pretty much any turn bet could we do something like donk lead half pot so we can at least set the price. Folding to a raise.
I know this folds out his air but if we might slow him down a bit and get a cheaper showdown in a spot where I don't want to have to call down

 

[rhombus]

This is going to happen a lot if you call in this spot with an ace dominated by the utg range.
three barrels is enough to convince me that he has a better ace or two pairs. I fold.
His pfr is only 16% so utg there is plenty of AK AQ here.
The question for me is does anyone else have a different way of playing this?

Like on the turn? If we are intending to call pretty much any turn bet could we do something like donk lead half pot so we can at least set the price. Folding to a raise.
I know this folds out his air but if we might slow him down a bit and get a cheaper showdown in a spot where I don't want to have to call down

i always wonder in simialar situations do you just keep calling down or maybe checkraise somewhere or donk to slow them down. I was actually thinking about checkraising the Turn as there bet seemed weak on the turn

 

[John A]

Last year, snap call especially as they are aggressive, but then what are they bluffing with that I beat maybe suited rag like As4s,

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $18.08 (180.8 bb)
Hero (BB): $10 (100 bb)
UTG: $12.15 (121.5 bb)26/16 53% AGG 43 Hands
MP: $15.39 (153.9 bb)
CO: $10 (100 bb)
BTN: $18.95 (189.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

J

UTG raises to $0.30, MP folds, CO calls $0.30, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.95) A

5

7

(3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.60, CO folds, Hero calls $0.60

Turn: ($2.15) Q

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.37, Hero calls $1.37

River: ($4.89) T

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $3.50,

Pre-flop is fine, especially if CO is at fishy. But as played you need to fold the turn. if you punch in your opponents betting range on the turn there, you're too far behind to continue.

 

[John A]

No one played poker this weekend?

 

[rhombus]

No one played poker this weekend?

I played but don't want to talk about it LOL

 

[John A]

I played but don't want to talk about it LOL

What happened?

What do you guys want to work on? Let's change topic and focus on something else.

 

[rhombus]

What happened?

What do you guys want to work on? Let's change topic and focus on something else.

Ran like a wonkey donkey.

I'm up for something like Post Flop when 3betting OOP

 

[John A]

Ran like a wonkey donkey.

I'm up for something like Post Flop when 3betting OOP

Sure... so steal or non-steal situations first?

 

[rhombus]

Sure... so steal or non-steal situations first?

Not sure what you mean. If you are 3Betting OOP does that mean you are restealing
i.e. CO Raises and you are in SB or BB * and 3Bet.

Second thoughts maybe my question wasn't clear as was talking about 3Betting Preflop OOP and how to play postflop.

When you said steal or non steal situations are you referring to steal preflop and what happens if theres a 3Bet postflop.


* (may make a diff as if in SB, BB could squeeze)

 

[rhombus]

Slightly off topic as played a PLO hand last night but I think the maths if correct is relevant to NLHE. Short guy kinda screwed the hand up cos I was hoping he'd shove. (If i was in his shoes I'd shove even if I knew the 3Bettor had Aces to get great odds when he reshoved*)

* called and folded on flop when investing 33% of his stack

Anyway on the flop I hit a set, but the flush also hit and here comes the boring maths part.



Effectively you have 35% equity if they have a flush or straight on a flop and you are drawing to a boat/4 of a kind.

Equity slightly changes if there are dead cards i.e.
Equity to win
AA v 45 on A23 35.15
1 Dead Card. i.e. 2 32.18
2 Dead Cards. i.e. 2 & 3 29.00
3 Dead Cards. i.e. A, 2 & 3 25.6

Ignoring the Shorty.With a SPR of around 2.

If they effectively shove the Flop. i.e. in NLHE is it a call.
and
Is this always a Bet Call if you know they have a flush or straight

Looking at the chart, in NLHE if they shoved its a fold when the SPR gets over 1.2(Ev = -0.1)

If you bet pot and they shove then its a call all the way up to a 4.5 SPR


Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $18.03 (72.1 bb)
BB: $27.59 (110.4 bb)
UTG: $38.79 (155.2 bb)
MP: $10.82 (43.3 bb)
CO: $25.85 (103.4 bb)
Hero (BTN): $25 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 3

K

A

A

UTG raises to $0.85, MP calls $0.85, CO folds, Hero raises to $3.75, 2 folds, UTG calls $2.90, MP calls $2.90

Flop: ($11.60) A

Q

7

(3 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets $11.11, UTG raises to $35.04 and is all-in, MP folds, Hero calls $10.14 and is all-in

Turn: ($54.10) 5

(2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($54.10) 4

(2 players, 2 are all-in)

Results: $54.10 pot ($2 rake)
Final Board: A

Q

7

5

4

UTG showed 6

5

8

9

and won $52.10 ($27.10 net)
MP mucked and lost (-$3.75 net)
Hero showed 3

K

A

A

and lost (-$25 net)

 

[Figaroo2]

I'd like to look at this area as well.
If far too passive post flop especially when I've whiffed the flop with AQ AK or when I've 3bet light as a steal and got called. I might run a filter on this. I'm usually 1 c bet and done post flop.

I should be around for a sweat later although
donut that I am I've signed up for the CC spring league and have the Tues game which clashes.

 

[rhombus]

ok managed to get an elastoplast for the donkey

3 Hands from an earlier session

Hand 1 and 2 are Calling 3Bets In position with pairs. Hand 3 donk betting.

Hand 1 - I feel calling the 3bet is ok as in position especially as they look abit aggro although easy fold OOP. Would it be an ok call if they were a Reg or NIT??.

On the flop, more likely to have hit my range than theirs so feel an easy call and see what they do on turn.
Turn 0.10 WTF, see this alot and most of time they want to get to showdown with mediocre hand, occasionally they have nuts and hoping opponent shoves.

I'm not sure what optimal play is here. I think if he has AK/AQ he has alot of outs so want to raise to charge (not sure about sizing) and if he does have me crushed I can fold if he shoves.

Hand 2 - Similar again to hand 1 think the 3bet is ok to call in position 112BBs deep. (this time a NIT 1st hand aggro). Again flop hits my range better than his so easy call.
My question is once he checks on turn do you bet to protect your hand against AK/AQ/AJ/KQ etc and what sizing

Hand 3 - late pos raise so feel ok to call with a J suited card. Prob fold smaller 34s, 36s etc.
Question. I think this is a good time to sometimes donk leak when you hit a flush draw against a late position opener when an Ace or King hits the flop.

Reasoning is if he has a hand like KQ/KJ/TJ even a hand like 22 44 55 66. Good chance he will fold as I am betting a hand that likely hits the Preflop bettors range and even if he calls I have flush draw and BD straight

Hand1
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $10 (100 bb)
BB: $10.11 (101.1 bb) 40/40 AG 70% 10 Hands
UTG: $9.57 (95.7 bb)
MP: $10.05 (100.5 bb)
CO: $11.73 (117.3 bb)
Hero (BTN): $10 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 4

4

3 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, SB folds, BB raises to $0.95, Hero calls $0.65

Flop: ($1.95) 8

6

T

(2 players)
BB bets $1.35, Hero calls $1.35

Turn: ($4.65) J

(2 players)
BB bets $0.10, Hero ???

Hand 2
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $11.88 (118.8 bb)
BB: $15.52 (155.2 bb)10/10 AG 50% 10 Hands
UTG: $12.37 (123.7 bb)
MP: $10.22 (102.2 bb)
CO: $11.01 (110.1 bb)
Hero (BTN): $11.21 (112.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 7

7

3 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, SB folds, BB raises to $0.95, Hero calls $0.65

Flop: ($1.95) 6

8

6

(2 players)
BB bets $1.02, Hero calls $1.02

Turn: ($3.99) 2

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero ?????????,


Hand 3
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $6.57 (65.7 bb)
Hero (BB): $10.10 (101 bb)
UTG: $46.26 (462.6 bb)
MP: $9.85 (98.5 bb)
CO: $12.05 (120.5 bb)
BTN: $13.51 (135.1 bb) 20/20 3B20 AG 50% 26 Hands

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2

J

3 folds, BTN raises to $0.30, SB calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.90) 3

A

7

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.60???

 

[Figaroo2]

Hands 1&2 if the pre flop aggressor checks the turn or bets 1bb I'm nearly always firing unless I know they are tricky and looking to induce. Not so big as to look bluffy but enough to take away his drawing odds. You don't have to go large 60% pot usually gets it done. If you get called whether or not I bluff depends on the river card, his wtsd % and if any draws complete. Hand 1 it looks like he picked up a draw.
J2 I just fold preflop. I would never flat it and it's not in my light 3bet hand range either. If I were to ever play it it would be to raise a limping SB who I know is really weak. I don't choose to just call oop with poor equity and no initiative it's just burning money.

 

[rhombus]

Hands 1&2 if the pre flop aggressor checks the turn or bets 1bb I'm nearly always firing unless I know they are tricky and looking to induce. Not so big as to look bluffy but enough to take away his drawing odds. You don't have to go large 60% pot usually gets it done. If you get called whether or not I bluff depends on the river card, his wtsd % and if any draws complete. Hand 1 it looks like he picked up a draw.
J2 I just fold preflop. I would never flat it and it's not in my light 3bet hand range either. If I were to ever play it it would be to raise a limping SB who I know is really weak. I don't choose to just call oop with poor equity and no initiative it's just burning money.

Thanks.

btw your daughter looks like a prince

 

[rhombus]

Regarding the SPR maths I posted earlier against a 35% equity, Ive actually done a
Matrix if anyone is interested. It includes the SPRS versus different equity Ranges for stacking off on the flop

 

[Sneaky Feet]

What happened?

What do you guys want to work on? Let's change topic and focus on something else.

Would you guys mind if we took a few minutes to talk about table selection? I had a short session last night so I only played for about an hour but I switched to 5 different tables in that time. Every table I sat at was full of passive nits with a couple calling stations for flavour. It was exasperating! It was a positive session but mentally painful.

 

[Figaroo2]

Regarding the SPR maths I posted earlier against a 35% equity, Ive actually done a
Matrix if anyone is interested. It includes the SPRS versus different equity Ranges for stacking off on the flop

sounds good I'd be interested in talking/looking over something like that. Just have to have a good idea of your equity from their ranges.

 

[John A]

Not sure what you mean. If you are 3Betting OOP does that mean you are restealing
i.e. CO Raises and you are in SB or BB * and 3Bet.

Second thoughts maybe my question wasn't clear as was talking about 3Betting Preflop OOP and how to play postflop.

When you said steal or non steal situations are you referring to steal preflop and what happens if theres a 3Bet postflop.


* (may make a diff as if in SB, BB could squeeze)

Since you're the 3-bettor, I was referring to whether the initial raise was coming from a steal position or not. You want to cover OOP, so 3-betting has to come from the blinds, or only SB open, BB 3-bet.

Any ways, I think we should break up whether we talk about steal positions first or not since they are much different. I just wanted to check in and see which one you think is giving you the most trouble, or if you don't know or care, we can start w/ non-steal spots since they are easier.

 

[John A]

Slightly off topic as played a PLO hand last night but I think the maths if correct is relevant to NLHE. Short guy kinda screwed the hand up cos I was hoping he'd shove. (If i was in his shoes I'd shove even if I knew the 3Bettor had Aces to get great odds when he reshoved*)

* called and folded on flop when investing 33% of his stack

Anyway on the flop I hit a set, but the flush also hit and here comes the boring maths part.

Well, you don't want my PLO advice, but clearly you can't bet/fold that flop. There's really no other good line to take though w/ your stack so you have to bet/call.

 

[John A]

ok managed to get an elastoplast for the donkey

3 Hands from an earlier session

Hand 1 and 2 are Calling 3Bets In position with pairs. Hand 3 donk betting.

Hand 1 - I feel calling the 3bet is ok as in position especially as they look abit aggro although easy fold OOP. Would it be an ok call if they were a Reg or NIT??.

On the flop, more likely to have hit my range than theirs so feel an easy call and see what they do on turn.
Turn 0.10 WTF, see this alot and most of time they want to get to showdown with mediocre hand, occasionally they have nuts and hoping opponent shoves.

I'm not sure what optimal play is here. I think if he has AK/AQ he has alot of outs so want to raise to charge (not sure about sizing) and if he does have me crushed I can fold if he shoves.

Hand 2 - Similar again to hand 1 think the 3bet is ok to call in position 112BBs deep. (this time a NIT 1st hand aggro). Again flop hits my range better than his so easy call.
My question is once he checks on turn do you bet to protect your hand against AK/AQ/AJ/KQ etc and what sizing

Hand 3 - late pos raise so feel ok to call with a J suited card. Prob fold smaller 34s, 36s etc.
Question. I think this is a good time to sometimes donk leak when you hit a flush draw against a late position opener when an Ace or King hits the flop.

Reasoning is if he has a hand like KQ/KJ/TJ even a hand like 22 44 55 66. Good chance he will fold as I am betting a hand that likely hits the Preflop bettors range and even if he calls I have flush draw and BD straight

Hand1
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $10 (100 bb)
BB: $10.11 (101.1 bb) 40/40 AG 70% 10 Hands
UTG: $9.57 (95.7 bb)
MP: $10.05 (100.5 bb)
CO: $11.73 (117.3 bb)
Hero (BTN): $10 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 4

4

3 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, SB folds, BB raises to $0.95, Hero calls $0.65

Flop: ($1.95) 8

6

T

(2 players)
BB bets $1.35, Hero calls $1.35

Turn: ($4.65) J

(2 players)
BB bets $0.10, Hero ???

I'm not a big fan of the pre-flop call w/o much info other than maybe this guy is too aggro. I don't hate it, but I think it's a break even call at best. As played too many draws/combo draws that come on the flop that kill you, I fold.

As played, he could have hit one of his combo draws. He's an aggro donk, so I'd just take the cheap card and make a river decision. He's probably going to fire big, but personally I just wouldn't gamble here and raise/shove the turn when there's going to be plenty of better spots against this guy when you get more info on him.

Hand 2
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $11.88 (118.8 bb)
BB: $15.52 (155.2 bb)10/10 AG 50% 10 Hands
UTG: $12.37 (123.7 bb)
MP: $10.22 (102.2 bb)
CO: $11.01 (110.1 bb)
Hero (BTN): $11.21 (112.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 7

7

3 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, SB folds, BB raises to $0.95, Hero calls $0.65

Flop: ($1.95) 6

8

6

(2 players)
BB bets $1.02, Hero calls $1.02

Turn: ($3.99) 2

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero ?????????,

Looks good... bet the turn. Totally standard - 2.3$.

Hand 3
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $6.57 (65.7 bb)
Hero (BB): $10.10 (101 bb)
UTG: $46.26 (462.6 bb)
MP: $9.85 (98.5 bb)
CO: $12.05 (120.5 bb)
BTN: $13.51 (135.1 bb) 20/20 3B20 AG 50% 26 Hands

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2

J

3 folds, BTN raises to $0.30, SB calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.90) 3

A

7

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.60???

That's fine, but fold pre-flop. I don't understand the - it's ok to call with here. Either squeeze or fold. You're in a sandwiched position post flop, and you either flop bottom pair or a weak top pair most of the time as your best flop. How do you win with this hand long term multi-way?

 

[rhombus]

Since you're the 3-bettor, I was referring to whether the initial raise was coming from a steal position or not. You want to cover OOP, so 3-betting has to come from the blinds, or only SB open, BB 3-bet.

Any ways, I think we should break up whether we talk about steal positions first or not since they are much different. I just wanted to check in and see which one you think is giving you the most trouble, or if you don't know or care, we can start w/ non-steal spots since they are easier.

OK sounds good to me start with the easy stuff

 

[rhombus]

Would you guys mind if we took a few minutes to talk about table selection? I had a short session last night so I only played for about an hour but I switched to 5 different tables in that time. Every table I sat at was full of passive nits with a couple calling stations for flavour. It was exasperating! It was a positive session but mentally painful.

At least you was aware of it. Until recently I didn't really table select at all when I played regular tables.
Bruce and John posted some good advice in this thread, not sure where
although I did filter the games based on the advice.

Also just found this link might have a look later
The Ultimate Guide to Table Selection for Today's Online Micro Stakes Cash Games



http://www.blackrain79.com/2014/08/the-ultimate-guide-to-table-selection.html