Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

[Figaroo2]

Ok so its going great then this happens. still running like a drain. perfect board for a slow played set. had him on two pair AJ the way he bet. No way you can put him on that. Just another really sick beat.
http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/6384789_82DF64F465

then this, tilted again already. this guy was high vpip and bluffing hard.
http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/6385473_0737A976E5

had a couple of days to cool off after the last tilt but i'm giving up on stars for now.

 

[John A]

Yeah, you're going to take some bad beats. That's poker. Just make sure you don't play mad.

 

[gtothec]

I have to ask why those two hands from the boom player tilted you so bad?
You actually want ppl to call you down to the river with worse hands. Yeah sure every so often they will hit their miracle card but most of the time they won't or they will go to showdown with a worse hand.
This is where your profit is made.
Just place a well informed note on that player, give yourself a moment then get a hand and take them to value town

Gl buddy

 

[Fisi]

Hi everyone!

I've found this thread a few weeks ago and has since been working through the chapters and discussion on this thread. I've finally caught up and I hope it's still not too late to join in.

John, I would really like to thank you for your contribution. The e-book is awesome and really well structured. Together with the discussion on this thread it forms a great learning plan and I believe since following it, I am making the greatest improvment in my poker game yet. Given that both are free is just ridiculous, and if not else, you sure are going to get a lot of positive karma.

I am going to post all my results from the various filters discussed here hopefully later today, so you guys get to know me a little bit better.

And once again, thanks for the opportunity to learn with and from guys like you and others participating in this thread!

 

[Figaroo2]

Gotothec
I'm tilted because i've had 7 weeks of horrid running and nothing seems to be changing, ie this from a few minutes ago..... I mean he is calling with on the flop with nothing but outside back doors... Clearly I need to cbet bigger ... I hit a str he hits a backdoor flush,,,absolutely typical of whats been happening to me recently. Normally I would put him all in on the river here but am running so bad i just decided to call. I only played this hand as I had sunk to vp 12 pfr 8 and didn't want to look to nitty.
http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/6428812_A8E2A69D39
I hate whinging about bad beats but i'm simply stunned by the volume and type of beats i'm taking. I've lost a 3rd of my bank roll on Pstars and I actually feel sick in the pit of my stomach when i'm playing cash games and sometimes still feel sick the next day . I've posted several recent beats in the bad beats string, under thinking of giving up cash games for good. having never run bad before i'm starting to appreciate where some others who are suffering are coming from.
I understand variance I just hope it all turns around soon.

 

[Fisi]

Here's a quick post of my stats, using the filters in this thread

For the overall PF flatting i'm up 1,62$, 1,6 bb/100 in 1011 hands
Flatting OOP, i'm up 36,23$, 72 bb/100 in 503 hands

Cold calling from the blinds overall i'm up 118,59$, 120,5 bb/100 in 984 hands
Cold calling non premiums from the blinds 105,02$, 135,51 bb/100 in 775 hands

Cold calling with:
AQs/AQo = -17,75$, -213,8 bb/100, 83 hands
AJs/AJo = -24,97$, -277,4 bb/100, 90 hands
ATs/ATo = -12,52$, -236,2 bb/100, 53 hands
KQs/KQo = +22,23$, 179,3 bb/100, 124 hands
KJs/KJo = +2,32$, 23,30 bb/100, 100hands
Net: -30,69$, -68,2 bb/100, 450 hands

3-betting with:
AQs/AQo = +9,8$, 60,87 bb/100, 161 hands
AJs/AJo = +20,97$, 233,1 bb/100, 94 hands
ATs/ATo = +35,59$, 635,5 bb/100, 56 hands
KQs/KQo = -12,74$, -187,4 bb/100, 68 hands
KJs/KJo = -1,1$, -15,1 bb/100, 73 hands
Net: +52,52$, 116,2 bb/100, 452 hands

All of the hands were played on Speed Poker (Zoom) on iPoker network

 

[Fisi]

@ Figaroo
Playing hands because you don't want to look nitty is never a good idea. Also betting the turn there seems bad, since he probably isn't folding anything he called with on the flop and if he's passive we might just see the river for free if we check.
Anyway, just keep improving your game when you're stuck and you should be getting out of that downswing sooner or later

 

[John A]

Hi everyone!

I've found this thread a few weeks ago and has since been working through the chapters and discussion on this thread. I've finally caught up and I hope it's still not too late to join in.

John, I would really like to thank you for your contribution. The e-book is awesome and really well structured. Together with the discussion on this thread it forms a great learning plan and I believe since following it, I am making the greatest improvment in my poker game yet. Given that both are free is just ridiculous, and if not else, you sure are going to get a lot of positive karma.

I am going to post all my results from the various filters discussed here hopefully later today, so you guys get to know me a little bit better.

And once again, thanks for the opportunity to learn with and from guys like you and others participating in this thread!

Thanks... glad you're in. And yes, it's not too late. My goal is to try and provide a model/format that has long term winning results for people. Something you can adjust as needed, but overall an extremely profitable system.

 

[John A]

Here's a quick post of my stats, using the filters in this thread

For the overall PF flatting i'm up 1,62$, 1,6 bb/100 in 1011 hands
Flatting OOP, i'm up 36,23$, 72 bb/100 in 503 hands

Cold calling from the blinds overall i'm up 118,59$, 120,5 bb/100 in 984 hands
Cold calling non premiums from the blinds 105,02$, 135,51 bb/100 in 775 hands

Cold calling with:
AQs/AQo = -17,75$, -213,8 bb/100, 83 hands
AJs/AJo = -24,97$, -277,4 bb/100, 90 hands
ATs/ATo = -12,52$, -236,2 bb/100, 53 hands
KQs/KQo = +22,23$, 179,3 bb/100, 124 hands
KJs/KJo = +2,32$, 23,30 bb/100, 100hands
Net: -30,69$, -68,2 bb/100, 450 hands

3-betting with:
AQs/AQo = +9,8$, 60,87 bb/100, 161 hands
AJs/AJo = +20,97$, 233,1 bb/100, 94 hands
ATs/ATo = +35,59$, 635,5 bb/100, 56 hands
KQs/KQo = -12,74$, -187,4 bb/100, 68 hands
KJs/KJo = -1,1$, -15,1 bb/100, 73 hands
Net: +52,52$, 116,2 bb/100, 452 hands

All of the hands were played on Speed Poker (Zoom) on iPoker network

Good job with the filters! Looks pretty similar to everyone else's. What conclusions do you draw now, and what changes, if any do you want to make for your game?

 

[Fisi]

Good job with the filters! Looks pretty similar to everyone else's. What conclusions do you draw now, and what changes, if any do you want to make for your game?

My overall postflop game is still not nearly strong enough, although I've started to play back a lot more on lower boards and boards that hit my percieved range well. Transfering some hands from my calling range to my 3-betting range definately wouldn't hurt.

Calling from the blinds seems decent, however I don't have much examples to compare them to. It also seems my winrate with premiums is much lower than non-premiums, which is weird and I will look over those hands to see why it is so.

I will definitely start 3-betting more with the quasi range in position against regulars, that don't fold much to 3-bets and fold to cbets >60% or so, or call flop cbets light but have low WTSD. I've also started 3-betting this range more from the blinds, which kind of backfired, as my 3-bet range vs. steals started to get close to 12 from the SB and 17 from the BB, to which the other regs seem to have adjusted by 4-betting me more and calling the 3-bets lighter and putting me in tough spots postflop. However it might just be selective memory, seeing that my winrate from the SB increased to -18bb/100 from -26 bb/100, and my winrate from the BB only slightly decreased to -34 bb/100 from -31bb/100 (small sample - 13.000 hands).

Overall however I believe I am really weak in getting value postflop. Especially from the CO. Since reading the discussion on this thread I have widen my CO UO PFR range to 27,4 from 23 and that is a start I guess. Generally I think my problem is in valuebetting too thinly and being too stationy when it comes to calling turns/rivers putting people on too many missed draws and pure bluffs.

 

[Figaroo2]

Back on track last few days

 

[John A]

My overall postflop game is still not nearly strong enough, although I've started to play back a lot more on lower boards and boards that hit my percieved range well. Transfering some hands from my calling range to my 3-betting range definately wouldn't hurt.

Good... yeah, this was kind of the reason for the filters you ran. At lower limits, this combined with players still learning and understanding ranges, using the quasi range, or some will call depolarized 3-betting range, will be more profitable. Just make sure you're doing it mostly in position.

Calling from the blinds seems decent, however I don't have much examples to compare them to. It also seems my winrate with premiums is much lower than non-premiums, which is weird and I will look over those hands to see why it is so.

Could be sample size related. Read the section on blind play in Polished Poker though because I think it has a good blueprint to work from.

I will definitely start 3-betting more with the quasi range in position against regulars, that don't fold much to 3-bets and fold to cbets >60% or so, or call flop cbets light but have low WTSD. I've also started 3-betting this range more from the blinds, which kind of backfired, as my 3-bet range vs. steals started to get close to 12 from the SB and 17 from the BB, to which the other regs seem to have adjusted by 4-betting me more and calling the 3-bets lighter and putting me in tough spots postflop. However it might just be selective memory, seeing that my winrate from the SB increased to -18bb/100 from -26 bb/100, and my winrate from the BB only slightly decreased to -34 bb/100 from -31bb/100 (small sample - 13.000 hands).

Overall however I believe I am really weak in getting value postflop. Especially from the CO. Since reading the discussion on this thread I have widen my CO UO PFR range to 27,4 from 23 and that is a start I guess. Generally I think my problem is in valuebetting too thinly and being too stationy when it comes to calling turns/rivers putting people on too many missed draws and pure bluffs.

Hey, that's good work! That's the point of what we're trying to do here. And that's good that you're recognizing you need to fold the turn/river more. You want to especially give credit to more passive players when they lead out, and not lean their range so strong to missed draws.

Keep up the good work.

 

[John A]

Back on track last few days

That's great. Don't get too far ahead of yourself though. Small sample. But that's good.... it's looking better.

 

[John A]

I'm hesitant to post this since some people are struggling with some of the concepts in PP Vol I, but it's another learning point, so I'll put it up and if it doesn't apply to your games, don't use it.

 

[Fisi]

Could be sample size related. Read the section on blind play in Polished Poker though because I think it has a good blueprint to work from.

Sure have. I have started going through the chapters for the second time, and I'm pretty sure it won't be the last time

Nice vid. I've sometimes found myself raising turns in a few spots like these, and it worked pretty well, however I've often found myself in a really tough spot on the river when the opponent called and I had only about a 1/2 to 2/3 pot sized bet left.

Anyways, doesn't checking the turn and betting the river kind of take away our 66 and 88 combos, which form pretty much the majority of our value raising range on the flop? Also I am pretty much always firing KJ on the turn and I believe others are firing it really often as well. The river T does present a great opportunity to represent 79, however if the river wasn't a 5 or a T I don't think we have as much fold equity against KQ+ as we would have if we fired the turn.

I've took some shots at NL20 today and ran horrible, but I think my play was pretty good. There was a lot of guys with stats like 37/28 or similiar and people were 3-betting and 4-betting me like crazy but I had no hands on them so I played pretty straightforward, but an interesting dynamic nontheless. Really looking forward to get some hands on people so I can start adjusting a bit more.

Also, thanks for the kind words

 

[John A]

Good... sounds like you have a good plan. That's important.

As far as the hand, I don't mind betting the turn against some opponents. However, the read was this guy was capable of folding, so check/betting the turn isn't going to have much of a different consequence. The only thing is I open myself up to him betting the river, but if that's the case, I wasn't going to fold him out any ways. So it's irrelevant. I leave myself slightly over pot sized bet on purpose because it's big enough to make him fold KQ+. Obviously I'm mostly repping the draw, but there are some other possibilities, like a bluff turned good (AQ), TT/JJ.

But part of the point is to think ahead about what you're likely going to do, and how to plan your bet sizing to achieve your goal. If you're leaving yourself 1/2, or 2/3rd, then you aren't planning your sizing well enough. 2/3rd can work sometimes depending on the texture of the board though.

Any ways, I was hesitant to post is in some ways because I don't want to overly confuse people.

 

[John A]

Alright..... so, for the Holiday season, the next free private coaching winner is:

Figaroo2

Congrats, and PM me and we'll set up some time to do some coaching.

 

[John A]

Happy Holidays everyone.

I know posting will be a little sparse and all over the place right now. However, I plan on laying out a pretty straight forward learning plan once we get through some of these holidays.

Hope everyone has a great season!

 

[Fisi]

Happy holidays to everyone!

 

[sidgucci]

Happy Holidays Cards Chat! The holiday celebration is over and now it's time to study and improve. Hope everyone is having a wonderful holiday season.

 

[John A]

Lots going on with the holiday season, so taking a brief posting break. But I have some big things planned for this thread, because I've been giving it some thought, which I'll share below.

1) After losing a house down payment because of black friday, and basically kissing that money good bye, AND having played a lot of mid-stakes post black friday and having to wait almost 11 months to get my money off (which I thought I might have lost again), I made a small deposit and have played almost all small stakes since then. I came to the conclusion a couple of weeks ago, this may be where I stay for awhile because I'm not super comfortable keeping a large roll online anymore.
2) Playing exclusively 50-100nl, which I hadn't really done this much in maybe 7+ years, adds a fresh perspective. I can absorb a lot of variance that I couldn't when I played those games regularly simple because... well, I'm a lot better of a player since then. I know how to maximize all of my situations, and I understand high EV bluffing opportunities better than I ever have.
3) Thus... I want to develop a lot of content from this perspective. I started doing that will Polished Poker, and I'm going to build on that will supplemental video content. I want to specifically address the parts of the game that I see students miss the most. It's sometimes a lot of little things, but those little things add up. Those are the things that help you absorb variance. If you're maximizing your spots well, you can absorb a lot of bad beats.

Any ways, just some thoughts. I want to list these concepts out and talk about how those small differences add up. And perhaps this will also bring up other ideas and concepts people have found and would like to share as well. The goal being we can literally make a list of bankroll expanding tips. I'm sure other people have some that I don't employ often, or other ways to take advantage of low variance, high EV opportunities.

By the time we're done, you should have a ton of tools in your poker belt to pick from. That would be the goal.

I'll throw it out there, and you guys can let me know what you think.

I have over 100k hands played recently at small stakes now.

 

[dj11]

Some quick clarification needed.

What are you considering small stakes?

What size tables are those stats from?

 

[John A]

Ya, like I mentioned it's pretty much all 50-100nl. Little bit of 200. Almost all 6-max, with some full ring sprinkled in.

 

[Fisi]

So, what are working on next?

 

[Figaroo2]

pressure from the button example

John please can you check this hand and advise on river bet sizing

Full Tilt, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

MP2: $17.35 (173.5 bb) 61 hands vp 25 pf19 Ag 4.7 3b 16, appears to be a decent reg, he had played maybe 4 of the last 10 hands and won most
MP3: $9.37 (93.7 bb)
CO: $17.64 (176.4 bb)
Hero (BTN): $10.26 (102.6 bb) I had been playing tight 16/10 3b 4.5%

Preflop: Hero is BTN with Td Kd
3 folds, MP2 raises to $0.30, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.80, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.75) Kc Ah Qs (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $0.90, MP2 raises to $2, Hero calls $1.10

Turn: ($5.75) 5h (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks

River: ($5.75) 2c (2 players)
MP2 checks, I'm not really sure what he has here, but the check must be a good sign. So it has to be a decent sized bet here for max pressure right? I wasn't sure whether full pot might have looked a bit bluffy which is why I went with around 70%
Hero bets $4.02, MP2 folds

Results: $5.75 pot ($0.28 rake)
Final Board: Kc Ah Qs 5h 2c
MP2 mucked and lost (-$2.80 net)
Hero mucked Td Kd and won $5.47 ($2.67 net)