Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

[John A]

Great looking stats John, thats got to be near perfect for 6 max...
looking forward to your new material..bring it on!

Danka... but not perfect that's for sure. My first major tilt span is in that sample. -21 buy-ins, just from running bad and tilt. Yuck... not proud of that.

Any ways... without further ado, first video. Comments, and feedback appreciated. I just cut it, so you guys are the first to view it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HaMpvm7bl0&feature=youtu.be

 

[John A]

Meh... new video link (ignore other one):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRdUpp8ObE0

So this series will focus on a lot of little things that make a big difference. I'm going to be adding some comments and examples also from the Polish Poker Workbook when it's complete.

 

[Figaroo2]

New Video

John
Yes I like this a lot, clear concise and well explained.
I recognized the concept straight away from your ebook and admit to have completely forgotten about it, dooh .

I had been thinking on the flop more about the openers and callers perceived ranges for my own cbetting but totally missed the reverse point.
I have been cbetting a lot less on 789 type flops against callers when I've opened with AK AQ hands but clearly openers are going to miss lower dry flops a lot as well. I hadn't considered raising as a caller on these flops I shall implement it straight away.
Makes total sense and this is why we neeeeeed your help.

And although there are a few you have stopped saying "a ton of" quite so much!
Shared on twitter

 

[Figaroo2]

equity

A little quiz for the students
Here was an interesting hand from my data base, a double gutter to a straight flush.....don't see many of them..got it in obviously on the flop, had to go to the equity calc to work out that I was 67% fav when the money went in...still lost though .
I raised pre he called from the button and he raised my cbet on the flop and we got it in.
His hand?

 

[John A]

John
Yes I like this a lot, clear concise and well explained.
I recognized the concept straight away from your ebook and admit to have completely forgotten about it, dooh .

I had been thinking on the flop more about the openers and callers perceived ranges for my own cbetting but totally missed the reverse point.
I have been cbetting a lot less on 789 type flops against callers when I've opened with AK AQ hands but clearly openers are going to miss lower dry flops a lot as well. I hadn't considered raising as a caller on these flops I shall implement it straight away.
Makes total sense and this is why we neeeeeed your help.

And although there are a few you have stopped saying "a ton of" quite so much!
Shared on twitter

Thanks for the feedback.

lol... It's funny, but I get lots of comments like that over the years like you say X a lot or Y too much. I'll have to keep it in check I guess.

So going to focus on some pre-flop basics next.

 

[Figaroo2]

(Full Tilt) $10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, September 21, 04:39:21 ET 2014 Table Highwood (real money)
Seat 3 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $5.16 USD ) - VPIP: 15, PFR: 6, 3B: 0, AF: 4.5, Hands: 89
Seat 2: Hero ( $19.83 USD ) - VPIP: 14, PFR: 9, 3B: 4, AG% 27, Hands: 142
Seat 3: Player3 ( $11.44 USD ) - VPIP: 16, PFR: 11, 3B: 3, AF: 3.3, Hands: 371
Seat 4: Player4 ( $19.49 USD ) - VPIP: 27, PFR: 12, 3B: 0, AF: 2.7, Hands: 116
Seat 5: Player5 ( $11.05 USD ) - VPIP: 12, PFR: 6, 3B: 4, AF: 1.7, Hands: 361
Seat 6: Player6 ( $11.32 USD ) - VPIP: 9, PFR: 7, 3B: 1, AF: 4.0, Hands: 381
Seat 7: Player7 ( $12.24 USD ) - VPIP: 20, PFR: 15, 3B: 4, AF: 2.3, Hands: 137
Seat 9: Player9 ( $10.08 USD ) - VPIP: 27, PFR: 9, 3B: 9, AF: 2.0, Hands: 283
Player4 posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
Player5 posts big blind [$0.10 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Ks Ac ]
Player6 raises [$0.40 USD] Villain has EP vpip 7%
Player7 folds
Player9 folds
Player1 folds
Hero calls [$0.40 USD] 3 bet here looks mega strong, prefer to call.
Player3 folds
Player4 folds
Player5 folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5d, Kh, 8h ]
Player6 bets [$0.50 USD]
Hero calls [$0.50 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2c ]
Player6 checks
Hero bets [$1.36 USD]
Player6 calls [$1.36 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ 3d ]
Player6 checks
Hero bets [$1.15 USD] going for that extra bit of value from QQ JJ but I thought he probably has the same as me, AK as played.
Player6 raises [$5.00 USD] OK now I wish id checked behind
Hero ?

 

[Figaroo2]

Full Tilt's daft shallow tables, could find anything else while playing the FT CC freeroll. you can only buy in for $10.
(Full Tilt) $25.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, September 21, 04:15:17 ET 2014 Table Travel (shallow) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $13.29 USD ) - VPIP: 28, PFR: 9, 3B: 0, AF: 5.0, Hands: 64
Seat 2: Player2 ( $23.17 USD ) - VPIP: 30, PFR: 13, 3B: 0, AF: 1.6, Hands: 82
Seat 4: Player4 ( $6.38 USD ) - VPIP: 16, PFR: 8, 3B: 3, AF: 1.7, Hands: 186
Seat 5: Player5 ( $11.85 USD ) - VPIP: 34, PFR: 17, 3B: 0, AF: 1.0, Hands: 29
Seat 6: Player6 ( $32.13 USD ) - VPIP: 35, PFR: 5, 3B: 0, AG% 40, Hands: 95 villian has a decent stack considering his stats
Seat 7: Player7 ( $25.01 USD ) - VPIP: 13, PFR: 10, 3B: 4, AF: 3.4, Hands: 497
Seat 8: Player8 ( $6.32 USD ) - VPIP: 34, PFR: 14, 3B: 4, AF: 3.7, Hands: 120
Seat 9: Hero ( $11.08 USD ) - VPIP: 17, PFR: 9, 3B: 4, AG% 35 , Hands: 95 there is that big vpip/pfr gap again I think its because on this table I was limping in along with the fish here, only player 7 looked solid.
Player7 posts small blind [$0.10 USD].
Player8 posts big blind [$0.25 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 6s 6d ]
Hero raises [$0.50 USD]
Player1 folds
Player2 folds
Player4 folds
Player5 folds
Player6 calls [$0.50 USD] quick look at the stats, Villain is a bad semi loose aggressive, who never 3 bets and has no positional awareness and is 100% call cbet in position.
Player7 folds
Player8 calls [$0.25 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6h, 7d, Jh ]
Player8 checks
Hero bets [$1.12 USD] 70% seems about right for this villain, how can we fail.
Player6 calls [$1.12 USD]
Player8 folds
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ]
Hero bets [$2.68 USD] 70% again
Player6 calls [$2.68 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ 9c ]
Hero bets [$6.78 USD] ok he doesnt appear to be going anywhere
Player6 calls [$6.78 USD]
Hero shows [6s, 6d ]
Hero wins $21.63 USD from main pot... we couldn't fail...
Player6 doesn't show [Ks, Kc ]

I wanted John to see this hand just to show him the type of fish out there even at 25nl..how can I not be making more?

 

[Fisi]

Meh... new video link (ignore other one):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRdUpp8ObE0

So this series will focus on a lot of little things that make a big difference. I'm going to be adding some comments and examples also from the Polish Poker Workbook when it's complete.

Great video, well explained, thanks!

 

[Fisi]

(Full Tilt) $10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, September 21, 04:39:21 ET 2014 Table Highwood (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $5.16 USD ) - VPIP: 15, PFR: 6, 3B: 0, AF: 4.5, Hands: 89
Seat 2: Hero ( $19.83 USD ) - VPIP: 14, PFR: 9, 3B: 4, AG% 27, Hands: 142
Seat 3: Player3 ( $11.44 USD ) - VPIP: 16, PFR: 11, 3B: 3, AF: 3.3, Hands: 371
Seat 4: Player4 ( $19.49 USD ) - VPIP: 27, PFR: 12, 3B: 0, AF: 2.7, Hands: 116
Seat 5: Player5 ( $11.05 USD ) - VPIP: 12, PFR: 6, 3B: 4, AF: 1.7, Hands: 361
Seat 6: Player6 ( $11.32 USD ) - VPIP: 9, PFR: 7, 3B: 1, AF: 4.0, Hands: 381
Seat 7: Player7 ( $12.24 USD ) - VPIP: 20, PFR: 15, 3B: 4, AF: 2.3, Hands: 137
Seat 9: Player9 ( $10.08 USD ) - VPIP: 27, PFR: 9, 3B: 9, AF: 2.0, Hands: 283
Player4 posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
Player5 posts big blind [$0.10 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Ks Ac ]
Player6 raises [$0.40 USD] Villain has EP vpip 7%
Player7 folds
Player9 folds
Player1 folds
Hero calls [$0.40 USD] 3 bet here looks mega strong, prefer to call.
Player3 folds
Player4 folds
Player5 folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5d, Kh, 8h ]
Player6 bets [$0.50 USD]
Hero calls [$0.50 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2c ]
Player6 checks
Hero bets [$1.36 USD]
Player6 calls [$1.36 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ 3d ]
Player6 checks
Hero bets [$1.15 USD] going for that extra bit of value from QQ JJ but I thought he probably has the same as me, AK as played.
Player6 raises [$5.00 USD] OK now I wish id checked behind
Hero ?

Players that tight rarely bluff rivers and probably never check raise rivers as a bluff. I would put him on 88, KK, or AA.

 

[John A]

(Full Tilt) $10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, September 21, 04:39:21 ET 2014 Table Highwood (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $5.16 USD ) - VPIP: 15, PFR: 6, 3B: 0, AF: 4.5, Hands: 89
Seat 2: Hero ( $19.83 USD ) - VPIP: 14, PFR: 9, 3B: 4, AG% 27, Hands: 142
Seat 3: Player3 ( $11.44 USD ) - VPIP: 16, PFR: 11, 3B: 3, AF: 3.3, Hands: 371
Seat 4: Player4 ( $19.49 USD ) - VPIP: 27, PFR: 12, 3B: 0, AF: 2.7, Hands: 116
Seat 5: Player5 ( $11.05 USD ) - VPIP: 12, PFR: 6, 3B: 4, AF: 1.7, Hands: 361
Seat 6: Player6 ( $11.32 USD ) - VPIP: 9, PFR: 7, 3B: 1, AF: 4.0, Hands: 381
Seat 7: Player7 ( $12.24 USD ) - VPIP: 20, PFR: 15, 3B: 4, AF: 2.3, Hands: 137
Seat 9: Player9 ( $10.08 USD ) - VPIP: 27, PFR: 9, 3B: 9, AF: 2.0, Hands: 283
Player4 posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
Player5 posts big blind [$0.10 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Ks Ac ]
Player6 raises [$0.40 USD] Villain has EP vpip 7%
Player7 folds
Player9 folds
Player1 folds
Hero calls [$0.40 USD] 3 bet here looks mega strong, prefer to call.
Player3 folds
Player4 folds
Player5 folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5d, Kh, 8h ]
Player6 bets [$0.50 USD]
Hero calls [$0.50 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2c ]
Player6 checks
Hero bets [$1.36 USD]
Player6 calls [$1.36 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ 3d ]
Player6 checks
Hero bets [$1.15 USD] going for that extra bit of value from QQ JJ but I thought he probably has the same as me, AK as played.
Player6 raises [$5.00 USD] OK now I wish id checked behind
Hero ?

7% overall, but 7% from EP. Well, no matter what your opponent is going to have an ubber tight range. I don't mind the value bet, but I'd probably bet a little more and not open up the door for a cheap bluff unless I thought my opponent was capable and I was planning on calling. Your opponents aggression is on the high side, but that's a little misleading because they are so tight. They are going to have a hand more often than not.

Any ways, as played you're getting the odds to call now all though it's ubber close. I think you need to put at least 2 bluffs in his range like AQs, AJs, and if that's the case then you just need 2:1 to call, which you are getting. I think you're going to be splitting here or a lot, but against a range of : KK+, AhJh+,AKo, and 88 you're getting the right price to call.

Edit: Just ran the numbers. It really comes down to how often you think he'll do this with 2 hands (AhJh,AhQh). I reduced the % to 40 and it's right at break even. If you increase it, then it becomes a much easier call.

Ace Poker Drills Poker Equity Calculator
Board: Kh 8h 5d 2c 3d

Equity Win Tie Hand Range
72.4638% 50.7246% 21.7391% [ KK+(100), AKs(100), AKo(100), 88(100),AhQh(40), AhJh(40) ]
27.5362% 5.7971% 21.7391% [ AcKs ]

You're getting 2.5:1 on a call, so about as close as you can get. If I reduce the two bluff hands to as low as 10%, then it becomes a fold at 24.2%. The good news is that call/ fold isn't some huge EV leak.

Ace Poker Drills Poker Equity Calculator
Board: Kh 8h 5d 2c 3d

Equity Win Tie Hand Range
75.7576% 53.0303% 22.7273% [ KK+(100), AKs(100), AKo(100), 88(100),AhQh(10), AhJh(10) ]
24.2424% 1.5152% 22.7273% [ AcKs ]

 

[John A]

Players that tight rarely bluff rivers and probably never check raise rivers as a bluff. I would put him on 88, KK, or AA.

I'd be careful with never... I would instead say rarely. The problem here is that hero bet small on the river, so it will open up the bluffing range just a crack. This guy is really tight, but he is aggressive enough. You're going to be beaten a lot of the time here though.

 

[Figaroo2]

Ok should we check behind here OTR or not bearing in mind how tight he is?
If we are betting thin value, how much do you recommend?
He was opening 7% from EP.
The way he played it checking the turn and river it didn't strike me as having something that can beat TPTK. If he did he was taking a chance me not betting either street and losing value.
RESULT Anyway I called he flipped over AA...

 

[Figaroo2]

So I get a email from Full Flush poker, wanting to know why I haven't played for a while, I have about $130 on there.
I open up the site and hang around for 5 mins looking for a seat somewhere and remember why I don't play there often , i've only got 30 mins!! the only seat that is available is at 50nl 10 man. All total unknowns lots of fishy looking stack sizes.
First playable hand I pick up 99 in the BB, EP raises $2 and BTN calls, I call.
Flop 10c 9h 3c.
I check raise, EP shoves all in 100bb, btn calls 100bb!!!!!
I tank for a while and decide to call it off i'm only behind one hand but you just know there is going to be at least one decent draw.
EP has AcQc, BTN has 10 9 for 2 pair so I'm in good shape 61% fav.
River was a 10 and the 150 bucks slides to the guy with 9% equity. hum de dum, feel like ive been kicked in the gut, every time I step up its the same.

 

[John A]

Ok should we check behind here OTR or not bearing in mind how tight he is?
If we are betting thin value, how much do you recommend?
He was opening 7% from EP.
The way he played it checking the turn and river it didn't strike me as having something that can beat TPTK. If he did he was taking a chance me not betting either street and losing value.
RESULT Anyway I called he flipped over AA...

I'd have bet/folded about 2.4-2.8 on the river. If he jams he's not going to bluff there. So it's an easy fold.

Any ways, I blogged about this hand today, so thanks!

http://acepokersolutions.com/poker-blog/the-great-divide-weighting-hand-ranges-in-poker/

 

[Fisi]

I'd be careful with never... I would instead say rarely. The problem here is that hero bet small on the river, so it will open up the bluffing range just a crack. This guy is really tight, but he is aggressive enough. You're going to be beaten a lot of the time here though.

Noted however how often can you expect someone turning an A top pair into a bluff on the river on 10nl? Isn't this a pretty advanced move?

 

[rhombus]

Noted however how often can you expect someone turning an A top pair into a bluff on the river on 10nl? Isn't this a pretty advanced move?

I'd agree at the micros, he would need a great read of opponent also having AK and trying to take him off it

 

[Figaroo2]

Thanks for the pep talk John

Taking it away from the raiser on a low flop.
I know this was a 3 bet pot but most of his 3 betting was from the button and I thought the play would work here, cannot see him hitting this flop and I don't want to just call and see an overcard and it looks like my best way to win the hand.

(poker stars) $10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, September 23, 04:12:19 ET 2014
Table Aspidiske II (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $9.42 USD ) - VPIP: 25, PFR: 12, 3B: 0, AF: 1.0, Hands: 109
Seat 2: Player2 ( $10.00 USD ) - VPIP: 4, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 25
Seat 3: Player3 ( $10.00 USD ) - VPIP: 8, PFR: 7, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 150
Seat 5: Player5 ( $16.89 USD ) - VPIP: 15, PFR: 12, 3B: 5, AF: 1.5, Hands: 60
Seat 6: Player6 ( $10.45 USD ) - VPIP: 25, PFR: 20, 3B: 5, AF: 4.5, Hands: 444
Seat 7: Player7 ( $10.15 USD ) - VPIP: 15, PFR: 14, 3B: 8, AF: 13.0, Hands: 196
Seat 8: Player8 ( $10.00 USD ) - VPIP: 16, PFR: 16, 3B: 10, AF: 0.0, Hands: 19
Seat 9: Hero ( $10.50 USD ) - VPIP:16 , PFR15: , 3B:7.9 , AG% 45, Hands:103
Player6 posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
Player7 posts big blind [$0.10 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Ts Th ]
Player8 folds
Hero raises [$0.30 USD]
Player1 folds
Player2 folds
Player3 folds
Player5 raises [$0.90 USD]
Player6 folds
Player7 folds
Hero calls [$0.60 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5h, 7s, 4s ]
Hero checks
Player5 bets [$1.20 USD]
Hero raises [$3.10 USD]
Player5 folds
Hero wins $1.90 USD
Hero wins $4.15 USD from main pot

Just a short 10nl session but more like my A game

 

[John A]

Noted however how often can you expect someone turning an A top pair into a bluff on the river on 10nl? Isn't this a pretty advanced move?

Well, he's not just turning top pair into a bluff though. We're saying if he ever does this with a hand like AQs, which can and does happen. The question, and I blog about this exact subject is, how often does he do it?

Give it a read if you haven't already:
http://acepokersolutions.com/poker-blog/the-great-divide-weighting-hand-ranges-in-poker/

 

[John A]

You're welcome for the free coaching session. I hope it gets you re-focused on some areas. Your game is coming a long very well.

As far as this hand, not really clear what your goal is. You are stacking off if he shoves here correct?

Taking it away from the raiser on a low flop.
I know this was a 3 bet pot but most of his 3 betting was from the button and I thought the play would work here, cannot see him hitting this flop and I don't want to just call and see an overcard and it looks like my best way to win the hand.

(Poker Stars) $10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, September 23, 04:12:19 ET 2014
Table Aspidiske II (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $9.42 USD ) - VPIP: 25, PFR: 12, 3B: 0, AF: 1.0, Hands: 109
Seat 2: Player2 ( $10.00 USD ) - VPIP: 4, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 25
Seat 3: Player3 ( $10.00 USD ) - VPIP: 8, PFR: 7, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 150
Seat 5: Player5 ( $16.89 USD ) - VPIP: 15, PFR: 12, 3B: 5, AF: 1.5, Hands: 60
Seat 6: Player6 ( $10.45 USD ) - VPIP: 25, PFR: 20, 3B: 5, AF: 4.5, Hands: 444
Seat 7: Player7 ( $10.15 USD ) - VPIP: 15, PFR: 14, 3B: 8, AF: 13.0, Hands: 196
Seat 8: Player8 ( $10.00 USD ) - VPIP: 16, PFR: 16, 3B: 10, AF: 0.0, Hands: 19
Seat 9: Hero ( $10.50 USD ) - VPIP:16 , PFR15: , 3B:7.9 , AG% 45, Hands:103
Player6 posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
Player7 posts big blind [$0.10 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Ts Th ]
Player8 folds
Hero raises [$0.30 USD]
Player1 folds
Player2 folds
Player3 folds
Player5 raises [$0.90 USD]
Player6 folds
Player7 folds
Hero calls [$0.60 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5h, 7s, 4s ]
Hero checks
Player5 bets [$1.20 USD]
Hero raises [$3.10 USD]
Player5 folds
Hero wins $1.90 USD
Hero wins $4.15 USD from main pot

Just a short 10nl session but more like my A game

 

[Fisi]

Well, he's not just turning top pair into a bluff though. We're saying if he ever does this with a hand like AQs, which can and does happen. The question, and I blog about this exact subject is, how often does he do it?

Give it a read if you haven't already:
http://acepokersolutions.com/poker-blog/the-great-divide-weighting-hand-ranges-in-poker/

Great read, thanks!

 

[John A]

Great read, thanks!

You're welcome. I nerded it up, but it's important stuff to understand. I think sometimes people think a gutter is worse to raise with than pure overcards, but that's generally not true since some of your over cards will almost always be discounted, where your gutter ball won't.

 

[rhombus]

seem to find myself in this spot alot, should i just be trying to get to showdown in position wit mediocre hand against aggressor or is it player dependent,
i.e. passive Aggression then easy bet/fold on turn when checked too for second time


My initial raise 3 bet preflop was a misclick wsa going to raise 70c
***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (Poker Stars)
$10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, September 28, 05:51:56 ET 2014
Table Klinkenberg 2 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: Hero ( $9.65 USD ) - VPIP: 25, PFR: 18, 3B: 8, AF: 1.9, Hands: 45402
Seat 2: Player2 ( $45.87 USD ) - VPIP: 27, PFR: 18, 3B: 5, AF: 1.6, Hands: 51
Seat 3: Player3 ( $9.05 USD ) - VPIP: 25, PFR: 25, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 20
Seat 4: Player4 ( $31.41 USD ) - VPIP: 33, PFR: 33, 3B: 0, AF: 2.0, Hands: 3
Seat 5: Player5 ( $11.14 USD ) - VPIP: 12, PFR: 12, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 52
Seat 6: Player6 ( $9.90 USD ) - VPIP: 0, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 5
Player2 posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
Player3 posts big blind [$0.10 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Js 9s ]
Player4 raises [$0.20 USD]
Player5 folds
Player6 folds
Hero raises [$0.40 USD]
Player2 folds
Player3 folds
Player4 raises [$0.80 USD]
Hero calls [$0.60 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jd, 5c, 2h ]
Player4 checks
Hero checks
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5s ]
Player4 checks
Hero bets [$1.02 USD]
Player4 raises [$3.04 USD]

 

[Figaroo2]

Hey Rhom
I don't normally like to be critical but I really don't like the way you played this hand, so I will ask you some questions.
Not sure I like/understand your min raise preflop of an unknown UTG opener, what are you trying to achieve by making a min raise?
He is likely never folding to a min raise so you are bloating the pot with a hand that has 36% equity against a 12% utg opening range.
Preflop I would suggest a proper 3 bet or just call. You might get a fold first time you three bet here and at least your range is polarised so its an easy fold to a 4 bet.
Then he checks the flop and having hit top pair you check and give a free card?
What are you going to do if an overcard drops in which hits his range? He only has 3-4 hands with a jack in his range, he is likely sitting there with Ax so you are likely to be a small favourite now so just bet your hand on the flop and make it big enough (at least 70-75%) to make him fold out most over card combos.
As played you have no real idea of his hand, if anything his re min raise preflop looks to tighten his range further, I would estimate only a 4-5% range is doing this which puts you under 30% equity.
It all seems a bit autopilot...we don't know enough about this player to make any reads so give an utg raise the respect it deserves.

 

[John A]

seem to find myself in this spot alot, should i just be trying to get to showdown in position wit mediocre hand against aggressor or is it player dependent,
i.e. passive Aggression then easy bet/fold on turn when checked too for second time


My initial raise 3 bet preflop was a misclick wsa going to raise 70c
***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (Poker Stars)
$10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, September 28, 05:51:56 ET 2014
Table Klinkenberg 2 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: Hero ( $9.65 USD ) - VPIP: 25, PFR: 18, 3B: 8, AF: 1.9, Hands: 45402
Seat 2: Player2 ( $45.87 USD ) - VPIP: 27, PFR: 18, 3B: 5, AF: 1.6, Hands: 51
Seat 3: Player3 ( $9.05 USD ) - VPIP: 25, PFR: 25, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 20
Seat 4: Player4 ( $31.41 USD ) - VPIP: 33, PFR: 33, 3B: 0, AF: 2.0, Hands: 3
Seat 5: Player5 ( $11.14 USD ) - VPIP: 12, PFR: 12, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 52
Seat 6: Player6 ( $9.90 USD ) - VPIP: 0, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 5
Player2 posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
Player3 posts big blind [$0.10 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Js 9s ]
Player4 raises [$0.20 USD]
Player5 folds
Player6 folds
Hero raises [$0.40 USD]
Player2 folds
Player3 folds
Player4 raises [$0.80 USD]
Hero calls [$0.60 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jd, 5c, 2h ]
Player4 checks
Hero checks
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5s ]
Player4 checks
Hero bets [$1.02 USD]
Player4 raises [$3.04 USD]

I mean I guess if your raise size pre-flop was a mislick, then it's ok. That's a lot of donking around versus an unknown though, which is typically a recipe for disaster. And even though you have odds and position, I'd probably let it go pre-flop simply because you don't know anything really about this opponent, and you aren't even 100 bbs deep.

As played I like the flop check, and I think you call the turn at this point. If he's going to donk around like that, then he could have anything at this point. So call and use your position and see what he does on the river.

 

[rhombus]

I don't normally like to be critical but I really don't like the way you played this hand, so I will ask you some questions.
Dont worry about being critical its just peoples opinions, as long as constructive criticism thats how we learn

Not sure I like/understand your min raise preflop of an unknown UTG opener, what are you trying to achieve by making a min raise?
Misclick meant to raise 70c

Then he checks the flop and having hit top pair you check and give a free card?
What are you going to do if an overcard drops in which hits his range?
Didnt bet the flop as didnt want to bloat the pot with mediocre hand
If overcard hit turn then check back and get cheap showdown

It all seems a bit autopilot...we don't know enough about this player to make any reads so give an utg raise the respect it deserves.
At this level they are min raising with all kinds of junk if they 4 bet then easy fold