***March Megalomania Poker Chat Thread***

[WVHillbilly]

*** FLOP *** [7h Td Kh]
xerox teen: checks
Entiteit: checks
urstroyer: checks

WTF???? Betting puts $$ in the pot which is EXACTLY what you should want to do with top set against 2 opponents. Stop ****ing checking in these spots!!!!!

Also please use a converter, raw hhs are very tilting.

And one more thing please stop talking during hands and for God's sake don't show your cards to someone who doesn't pay to see them.

 

[blankoblanco]

Stop ****ing checking in these spots!!!!!

Stop ****ing checking in these spots!!!!!

Stop ****ing checking in these spots!!!!!

QFSTOP IT

and raise more on the turn! like a man! just stop doing everything like a little girl!

 

[eNTy]

Please explain how I'm ever getting paid when betting flop if opponents don't have AA ? And it's a raw HH so u can see the chat.
The turn reraise size is the standard value tableninja puts there fwiw.. Is it too small ?

Agreed with the rest ..

 

[tenbob]

Please explain how I'm ever getting paid when betting flop if opponents don't have AA ? And it's a raw HH so u can see the chat.
The turn reraise size is the standard value tableninja puts there fwiw..

Agreed with the rest ..

Errrr a flush draw "might" pay a bit ? AK ? Maybe even A10...........

 

[switch0723]

when you have a big hand, you want to be betting enough so you can shove the river for just less than pot size, you should be able to see your missing out on value due to the fact even after re raising 2 bets, you still aren't shoving river

 

[eNTy]

Isn't AK highly unlikely since there's only 1 K left ?
This guy was very tight/solid and I've never seen him draw.

 

[dsvw56]

Please explain how I'm ever getting paid when betting flop if opponents don't have AA ? And it's a raw HH so u can see the chat.
The turn reraise size is the standard value tableninja puts there fwiw..

Agreed with the rest ..

A) It's 25nl. You'll get paid because they suck.

B) No, he didn't have a set of 5's. No one at 25nl ever folds a set.

C) Notice how every draw got there before you got the money in the middle? That's what happens when you check in spots like these and probably a big part of why you're struggling.

 

[orangepeeleo]

when you have a big hand, you want to be betting enough so you can shove the river for just less than pot size, you should be able to see your missing out on value due to the fact even after re raising 2 bets, you still aren't shoving river

It's been said as well to sometimes not bet so as not to scare people off / induce a bluff on later streets. So confusing, do we bet big hands or do we not bet????

Ive never heard of the betting enough to shove the river idea, is there any thread out there that explains this more??

 

[Chris_TC]

Man what a sham, can't believe I didn't recognize the pattern. If that doesn't put you on tilt I don't know what does...

This games sucks whan you have to guess with 50% EV. Why can't they make it such that there's always a clean solution?

Edit: Not everyone can run like a God like KC and TC do!!!

I'm now stuck 16 buy-ins at 10/20 over less than 10K hands. That's what Moving Up nightmares are made of* I'll have to grind it out just to be rolled for the limit again.
Then again, I did play 10/20, so life can't be too bad.
And eventually teh rabbit will get it all back anyway.

*The last time this happened, I was moving up to 100NL for the first time. I initially lost 19 buy-ins over 20K hands before a hot streak turned the graph around in very little time.

 

[eNTy]

How long have u been playing poker chris ?

 

[WVHillbilly]

Please explain how I'm ever getting paid when betting flop if opponents don't have AA ? And it's a raw HH so u can see the chat.
The turn reraise size is the standard value tableninja puts there fwiw.. Is it too small ?

Agreed with the rest ..

If you held AQ you would bet as cbet and hope to take it down right? So by betting here it just looks like a cbet and in addition to the flush draws, you're going to get called by QJ, any T, and maybe even smaller pairs. This board is perfect for a bet, bet, bet line.

 

[Irexes]

To anyone who complains about running bad.

Read this like 50 times.

I'm now stuck 16 buy-ins at 10/20 over less than 10K hands. That's what Moving Up nightmares are made of* I'll have to grind it out just to be rolled for the limit again.
Then again, I did play 10/20, so life can't be too bad.
And eventually teh rabbit will get it all back anyway.

*The last time this happened, I was moving up to 100NL for the first time. I initially lost 19 buy-ins over 20K hands before a hot streak turned the graph around in very little time.

Chris sir, your attitude is awesome and a model to aspire to.

 

[blankoblanco]

Please explain how I'm ever getting paid when betting flop if opponents don't have AA ? And it's a raw HH so u can see the chat.
The turn reraise size is the standard value tableninja puts there fwiw.. Is it too small ?

there are these things called draws that people call with. you're getting action from: any 2 hearts, QJ, J9, likely AQ, likely AJ, 89, in addition, AK, KQ, KJ, AT, JT, TT, 77... even though you have the kings somewhat crippled it's still an action board and a lot of cards kill your action. furthermore, when you check, you're forced to make that dumb raise on the turn to build a pot which ends up looking super strong and leads decent players to folding big hands on a lot of rivers. and you're just not building a pot when you have a hand to play for stacks. if everybody folds it's not the end of the world!!! it means they didn't have sh*t, including any draws! the times it checks through and they hit their 2 outer set on the turn (a 5% chance) doesn't make up for that

re: turn raise size, if the guy bets less than half pot and there are a million draws, less than 3x his bet is way too small. in fact less than 3x the other player's bet is usually too small but especially here

 

[orangepeeleo]

Played 15k hands now so i was thinking my stats should be starting to show any glaring mistakes i'm making, just wondering if some more experienced guys on here can have a quick look and tell me what they think.

Something thats slightly disturbing is the amount of money lost in the blinds i'm thinking maybe that this is an area of my game that could be improved lol how does everyone elses blinds stats look??

I'm currently playing FR @ 5nl, thanks guys

 

[BelgoSuisse]

It's been said as well to sometimes not bet so as not to scare people off / induce a bluff on later streets. So confusing, do we bet big hands or do we not bet????

Are you good at math? If the answer is yes, read this paper: "U(0,1) Two-Person Poker Models", by Chris Ferguson, Tom Ferguson and Céphas Gawargy.

http://www.math.ucla.edu/~tom/papers/poker2.pdf

It solves the problem mathematically for a single round of betting.

If you don't feel like reading too many equations, the basic idea is that you bet the top and bottom of your range and you don't bet the middle of it. So you bet your monsters, mix it with some bluffs, and use medium strength hands to catch villain's bluffs.

With three rounds of betting, it gets a little more tricky and nobody really knows the game theoretical optimum, but the general principle still applies.

 

[BelgoSuisse]

Played 15k hands now so i was thinking my stats should be starting to show any glaring mistakes i'm making, just wondering if some more experienced guys on here can have a quick look and tell me what they think.

Something thats slightly disturbing is the amount of money lost in the blinds i'm thinking maybe that this is an area of my game that could be improved lol how does everyone elses blinds stats look??

I'm currently playing FR @ 5nl, thanks guys

Looks very fine. The only minor thing would be that you probably defend your BB too much. That makes you play too many hands oop. Poker is so much easier in position...

And then your vpip/pfr spread is a bit high, but that's really fine at 5nl, better wait till you move up before you change that, imo.

oh, and loosing that much in the blinds is standard. It's not a big worry provided you make enough on the BTN and that you don't lose more than 0.5 BB/hand in BB and 0.25 BB/hand in SB, obviously

 

[eNTy]

Orange, I'm not sure, but I think the BB and SB profit numbers include money you lose with posting blinds (and folding).

So that would be a normal figure I'm guessing.

Well it took me 150 minutes, far more than what I usually play, but I got close enough to unstuck to be happy.
The 2nd big drop down (at hand 50 or w/e) is me thinking switch would be shoving river as a steal, since I just told him I should always fold to river shoves from now on like 2 minutes before the hand on aim. And calling with middle pair losing to his TPTK .

 

[c9h13no3]

Bet your hand, omfg this is not rocket science.

 

[Tygran]

I generally hate stacking AK preflop for a full stack at FR...

any thoughts on this situation?

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/50-nl-he-full-ring-50-a-145573/

 

[BelgoSuisse]

The 2nd big drop down (at hand 50 or w/e) is me thinking switch would be shoving river as a steal, since I just told him I should always fold to river shoves from now on like 2 minutes before the hand on aim. And calling with middle pair losing to his TPTK .

FWIW, i don't think it's a good idea for you guys to be playing the same tables. Try to avoid each other as much as possible.

You want to learn how to play against generic regs and how to exploit fishes. At 25nl, that means you need to master a pretty standard set of lines that will be the solid foundation of your game, both now and later on.

When you play each other, there's way too much third level thinking going on and that furthers your natural tendency for fancy play syndrom.

Focus on the foundation now. Fancy play is something that will start to be worth it when you get to play 100nl regs or something like that. Before that, it's just another name for spew...

 

[KingCurtis]

Barely madeSilver lastmonth,and 5 days into March I have Silver Star status fornext month from25nl woootwoot, GOLDSsssssssss soon

 

[eNTy]

I agree Belgo.
I am close to silver too KC, although I played less hands then you, it's also a side effect of them lowering the VPPs needed per level .

 

[bw07507]

YAY, finally, been trying to get this for the last 2 weeks

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...1-100nl-player-stars-year-145582/#post1108908

 

[zachvac]

I gotz soulread by a tag/nit reg

PokerStars Game #25638954821: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2009/03/05 16:19:24 ET
Table 'Laertes VI' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: urstroyer ($25 in chips)
Seat 2: ChKo ($32.70 in chips)
Seat 3: xerox teen ($26.50 in chips)
Seat 4: SAMlR ($25 in chips)
Seat 5: Entiteit ($25 in chips)
Seat 6: HKing81 ($22 in chips)
Seat 7: sil693 ($36.30 in chips)
Seat 8: Emckus ($26 in chips)
Seat 9: Yaman0 ($32.05 in chips)
xerox teen: posts small blind $0.10
SAMlR: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Entiteit [Kc Ks]
Entiteit: raises $0.75 to $1
HKing81: folds
sil693: folds
Emckus: folds
Yaman0: folds
urstroyer: calls $1
ChKo: folds
xerox teen: calls $0.90
SAMlR: folds
*** FLOP *** [7h Td Kh]
xerox teen: checks
Entiteit: checks
urstroyer: checks
*** TURN *** [7h Td Kh] 5♦
xerox teen: bets $1.50
Entiteit: raises $2.40 to $3.90
urstroyer: folds
xerox teen: calls $2.40
*** RIVER *** [7h Td Kh 5d] J♥
xerox teen: bets $2
Entiteit: raises $10.40 to $12.40
sil693 leaves the table
xerox teen said, "meh"
xerox teen said, "set of 5s no good?"
Entiteit said, "lol"
takikardiko joins the table at seat #7
xerox teen: folds
Uncalled bet ($10.40) returned to Entiteit
Entiteit said, "ill show"
Entiteit collected $14.35 from pot
Entiteit: shows [Kc Ks] (three of a kind, Kings)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $15.05 | Rake $0.70
Board [7h Td Kh 5d Jh]
Seat 1: urstroyer folded on the Turn
Seat 2: ChKo (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: xerox teen (small blind) folded on the River
Seat 4: SAMlR (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Entiteit collected ($14.35)
Seat 6: HKing81 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: sil693 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Emckus folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Yaman0 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

ok so it's kinda been beaten to death that you should bet this flop. I'm not sure but if you have 22 in this spot on that flop with 2 opponents are you cbetting or not? This is a flop I'd lean towards no because you get almost no folds. For that exact reason you have to bet when you flop top set. But I want to go over something else. Note what happens here. If villain jams are you going to fold here? The flush draw just got here as did AQ or Q9. So by checking the flop you gave him a free card to his draw, and now you're going to stack off when he hits it. That's a humongous leak right there. You're just giving massive implied odds on this as when he misses all you get is maybe a turn or river bet but when he hits his hand he gets your entire stack.

And you just really need to look beyond "omg don't want to scare him off I have a monster". Against a draw you want them to fold if the options are free card or fold. If it's a made hand they're more likely to call on a drawy board before the draw hits, and basically every single hand is more likely to call a flop bet than a turn bet. No one sees a check and thinks "omg I can stack my middle pair now". But plenty of people call off 2-3 streets if you bet/bet/bet and draws miss. You say you check because you dont' think he has anything, what hands exactly are going to put in more money later? Are you hoping they have a PP and hit one of their 2 outs to catch up to be 2nd best? Like seriously even if they don't have much what the hell does checking do other than make it less likely that they'll call later and more likely that you're not ahead anymore on scary turns and rivers? The problem isn't really that you fail to extract value in hands like these, the problem is when he has a hand like AQ or 2 hearts here and you lose your stack whereas checking doesn't make it any more likely you'll get a call later. And again, if they fold a lot here, you'd better be betting 100% of your whiffed cards in this spot. But of course that would be bad because they don't fold that much here. /rant

 

[switch0723]

FWIW, i don't think it's a good idea for you guys to be playing the same tables. Try to avoid each other as much as possible.

tbh i didn't even know it was him, it was his first hand at the table, so i still had the hud of the player who just left over his name, so i was going of that unaware i was facing enty

Anyone think this is a good play, or is it pretty much 100% spew


Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

BTN: $16.90 (67.6 bb)
SB: $26.05 (104.2 bb)
BB: $4.70 (18.8 bb)
UTG+1: $25 (100 bb)
MP1: $25 (100 bb)
Hero (MP2): $53 (212 bb)
MP3: $27.55 (110.2 bb)
CO: $6 (24 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is MP2 with A

K

UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises to $1, Hero calls $1, MP3 calls $1, CO raises to $6 and is all-in, 3 folds, MP1 calls $5, Hero raises to $52.25, MP3 folds, MP1 calls $19 and is all-in

mp1 is a 12/10
CO is like 50/40 and has been shipping it in over 3 bets the last couple of orbits and noone has called him yet.