Is Online Poker Rigged?

[Jdjakubisin]

Funny

I was thinking about posting something like this question today and then I seen it here.

In a freeroll ladder tournament 6 max.

I turn the lead around on him after a big pot, and like many the guy says "this site is rigged."

To this off the cuff I gave the reply, "you should have learned the site first."

If the system is rigged and you';re so sure of it, why don't you learn it first?:rock:

 

[SouthparkSith]

So here is the question of the day? If you believe that these online sites are not rigged explain these two situations to me?
1. About six months ago on a site I'll not Name they might get "REVVVED" up? In the course of 6 hours I watched or was part of quad aces being beat by the exact same club royal 5 times in 6 hours? Now granted that's on several different tables but still what are the odds?

2. You ever play jackpot poker on ACR? Pay attention next time you do! With out fail every single time you or an opponent knocks out one of the other players to get heads up. It doesn't matter what you have for cards " usually A/K, A/Q,J of big pockets. For the next three or four hands after you knock someone out if they shove and you call your beat! Most recently my aces we're beat by 9/2 of hearts on a 4/9/Q flop they shove and running hearts costs me $240 on a $40 round? I get it. It happens but every time? I can predict the river card on there 80% of the time if both players are all in on the flop? How is that Random?

 

[guitaRisGood]

I think many factors make it more likely that there will be bad calls making things look like a site is rigged:
More weaker players on line than live
Looser play online cuz 50 other tournaments are starting right now
Lower buy-ins online so less to lose
People playing multiple tables so paying less attention
Waaaaay more booze and drug consumption at the online tables (er... uh... or so i've heard)
... obviously more bad calls in a tournament will yield a higher s*** out rate (can i say s*** out here?)

BUT. Even without all that I think it's more about perception of how frequently this happens online. Consider the ratio of hands played in a day at a casino vs the same amount of time playing online. Depending how many tables you play at a time it can be 10 or 20 to 1.... so when you see 1of these s*** out live, you're going to see 10 or 20 online.

.....Having said all that it wouldn't surprise me one bit to find out the sites are rigged. I think i'd be much more surprised to find out that they are squeaky clean

 

[Nikolay Nakhaev]

just online there are many competitions of different types and different types of players, which makes it very difficult for any game at small stakes.
A good room will not allow others to doubt its reputation. it is not profitable

 

[mathtree]

I have seen literally over ten million hands online and perhaps two million live over the past twenty years, and I believe the only difference is you can control the pot better in person so there aren't as many all in bets pre or post flop. Online players who go all in post flop on the flop get "surprised" by outcomes of variance more often because with two streets remaining the odds change quickly and the outcome should not surprise so I do not think online is rigged. Why would the site care who wins - all they want is the rake and they always get it no matter who wins. I think black Friday showed all that you can't cheat or you pay up. I received my bankroll back from the DOJ eight years after BF from ultimate bet and I was surprised about that!

 

[Kingpoetmusic]

I do not think it is rigged. I feel it is better in your favor when you make the right raise. It seems like you get better draws and made hands when you have control of the hand.

 

[Jayplay916]

A lot of players make this claim when they suffer a series of bad beats - we get our share of them around here.

Let's have a serious discussion about it. Read this article:

Is online poker safe or rigged?

There is some really good information in that article that explains some of the misconceptions players have.

The thing I see the most is players having a bad day or even a bad week - or they are making a lot of wrong decisions - and they instantly think the game is cheating them.

They will post hands and say "No way should this happen!" - and I know instantly they have never played live poker. I have been playing live poker for about 10 years and I have seen it all happen in a situation where it can not possibly be rigged.

What are your thoughts?

(ps - this is not the place to post your bad beat hands!)

I have to agree the thing about online poker is we will sit there and play alot of hands and things go fast. The more hands you call the more times you can suffer bad beats but i have been on some recieving ends of hands that i was lucky to win. I tend to make bad decions like going all in with top pair with draws out there that will kill my hand. Ive won some tournaments online and the way i played in those games was skill and also some luck but also i threw away winning hands that would of been crushed by a reckless guy pushin all in on me cause he has double triple my stack. So some times you have to fold the AK if you hit your A but are pushed all in by a bully if there is a draw out there that kills your AK, I mean I can go on forever like about position but it comes down to how many hands you are actually in till the river.

 

[Zikasamaster]

Same things happened in online poker and live poker,cant tell that i am i some situation thinked that online poker is rigged but that was happenning on begining of playing poker and when i was better poker player and starting play live poker i figure out that all that things happening in live poker so online poker isnt rigged for sure.....

 

[lilu80]

When we usually lose, we think about: "maybe rigged"?
When we win, we think about it: "maybe beers or Polish vodka"?
BTW: (Polish vodka of course all universe know that is the best).
We are back drunk, lose and we state categorically: "of course rigged"!
In my opinion, the moral is one. Better is win in poker and don't play when you are drunk! Only in this, poker isn't rigged!

 

[TruvyDog]

I can not honestly say that I believe ALL online poker rooms are rigged however there are definitely times that the patterns other players talk about feel evident. I always feel like when I take a break from online poker and return and make a deposit after several months, the odds seem to run my way until I build up a nice little chunk and then bam it seems no matter how tight I play I get crushed by garbage.

I know I am not presenting hard data or claim to have tracked the %s or anything like that but I have been playing both live and online on several different sites since the early 2000s and it’s a somewhat noticeable pattern at least to me. Others have mentioned it in this thread as well. I do want to believe that these sites would want to maintain their integrity to make their business more profitable but it’s hard to not think this way when the same thing happens over and over.

I do respect the thought that many mention which is the fact that when playing online you see plenty more hands per hour. Couple that with the fact that you don’t have to face the player you are making a move against and right there you have another layer of play that allows players to make bad decisions with the instant click of a mouse...

Part of this could be self induced though as well. When I play online I stick to micro and low level limits. I can’t help it to find the trust to do anything larger than an $11 buy in and that is after a good run. I tend to stick to $5 and below online so maybe I am welcoming that kind of play against me? The buy-in doesn’t necessarily define the level of all the players though even though it probably welcomes newer players who just don’t know the game well enough yet. I’m also sure there are donks out there though risking higher buy-ins though otherwise the game would be a lot easier than it is...

After 10 years of playing poker live and online, after using HM2 and other softwares, after playing sessions of more than 5.000 hands per day in micro stakes all the way to 200nl 6max, after cashing out thousands of eu, I can honestly say it’s rigged to the bone. You can say what ever u want to me but it will still be rigged, there patterns you can clearly see in every card room, sure we play thousands of hands and the game is faster, 2x100nl Zoom is approx 500 hands per hour, 1X2/4 FR in a casino is 25 to 30 hands per hour. We all know that! But the pattern is the same, after u cash out you are doomed to lose big, after every big juicy pot you take with perfect play you are doomed to lose with 1 or 2 outers on the river by some idiot, and you end up break even or slightly up or down...try this at home, make a deposit and play 2 tables of Zoom 50nl with lets say 5 buy ins, play your A game GTO solid play, avoid nasty spots and tricky hands, just fold and go to the next, do this every day and u will have a win ratio of approx 10 to 9 BB/100, when there is no other way to lose because u play solid game the magic will start eventually, u will flop the nuts and some jackass will shove with crap hand and guess what? He will hit his 1 outer on the river! This will happen 5 to 10 times in a single session of 3.000 hands, now calculate your profits in 3.000 hands of solid play 150eu and calculate your bad beats lets say 5 bad beats where you were all in -250...250bad beats -150 profit -100 bankroll ... this is a pattern in every online poker room, every single time bad beat after bad beat after bad beat, you make a new deposit you run well for 1 week or you even make a cash out and BOOM same shit different day! Online poker is rigged and don’t start on me, they don’t need to fix the tables cause they are making millions from rake, as long money is involved they want MORE it’s human nature, more exotic boards more rake, more fish in the pool bigger pots, just imagine what will happen if all the fish were eaten by the sharks, sharks will starve to death and start eating each other, eventually poker room will be out of clients and businesses. So yeah they are making shitload of money by manipulating the RNG to favor the fish to stay in the pool, if you reject this just try it your self, or try this trick I did a year ago, I played 250hands per day, every single day in a casino for 30 days, so 250X30= 7.500 hands in a month, the craziest hand in this 7.500 hands was set over set over straight and AA vs AA vs KK ...that’s it! Two crazy hands in 7.500 hands live play, no go play 7.500 online in pokerstars and check for your self. It’s rigged people I made money from online poker got a new car payed bills etc but ITS RIGGED

Just an example of a recent live play hand that I wanted to share that seemed so crazy it felt like online play. I am not trying to discredit you either (look at my other posts I too notice patterns with online play that just don’t seem right and I’m not sure what to think) just wanted to share.

I am UTG with KK and 26,000 chips. Blinds are 1k/2k with 17 players remaining. Play on the table was already incredibly loose but I had presented myself as tight all night. I make it 6k with a standard 3x raise. Folds all around to the small blind as I anticipated because of my tight play.


Small blind has 19k in front of him and calls. BB folds. Flop is 893 with 89 being clubs. Small blind pushes all in with his remaining 13k. Now before I reveal SB hand, let’s look at the math on the call preflop...he made a call with nearly 1/3 of his chipstack. Cards should be premium especially in this stage of the tourney no? Even with 1k in as SB, at least IMO.

I thought about whether or not to call. Straight draw,flush draw, did he make a set with a small,pair? I have KK. I’m good. I call and still have 7k left so at least I’m alive through the upcoming blinds even.

He turns over J7 clubs. What in the crap? You make it to the last two tables, you’ve seen how tight I’ve been. I get the post flop bet when you counted your chips post flop and realized that there was 14k in the pot and you only have 13k to fire at it but calling 1/3 of your stack with J7 clubs and B.B. to act preflop....crazy!

Needless to say not only did he hit his GUTSHOT straight on the turn, he clubbed up on the river. I looked it up that night (so don’t rag on me if my #s are slightly off). Preflop I was 80 something % favorite. Even with that flop I was still 60% favorite. Turn I was 0%.

I guess these hands can happen in real play as well is my point, despite my whining lol. I didn’t make the final table that night... Just wanted to share that for those who say this doesn’t happen live.

 

[Willyw3w]

Any one else experience this???

I recently "re-tried" on line poker.

Here is what I feel is happening to me.

Fist part of cycle) After depositing money, I consistently get more AA, KK, QQ, AK, etc. than I typically would get in a live game --- except when you running really, really hot. They often hold up. I double up within a few sessions. Feels great. I'm loving it... getting into the pattern.

Second part of cycle) After playing little while, I still get many strong opening hands than in normal "live poker" and I flop more sets and strong made-hands than I typically see in live poker. But they DONT hold up. In fact, three of the past 3 sets I flopped ON A DRY BOARD, lost runner, runner. Rebuy... back to first part of cycle.

Does anyone else experience this pattern? It seems to repeat fairly consistently. I do well in Live poker... there seem to be so many MORE "illogical" hands on-line. Not complaining here... but you know what you know.

What concerns me the most is that a disreputable gaming site could manipulate a TINY percentage of their hands -- so small that ANY statistical analysis (e.g., by a gaming commission) would show everything falls within reasonable variance. A good coder could almost instantly make this capability integral to the gaming system -- and within seconds, remove that section of the code, encrypt it, and stow it in some unrelated disk location. Auditors would never find it. Statistics could never prove it. But the insiders would make MANY MILLIONS more than they would running a fair game. Greed is a strong motivator as we saw in 2008 when all the sites that everyone said "were making enough on the rake and had no need to cheat" were cheating (employees/consultants playing as superusers).

The last piece of the puzzle... by switching it up and frequently make new bots/accounts they could easily prevent a superuser from being singled out as a statistical anomaly (this broke the 2008 scandal).

So the (often paid) poker lobbyists will respond with how I'm just another sore lose (I don't lose enough on-line to really care about the money piece of it).

I'm more interested to know if anyone else sees this "pattern". I'm just trying to see if I am the anomaly or if something weird is going on.

 

[TruvyDog]

I recently "re-tried" on line poker.

Here is what I feel is happening to me.

Fist part of cycle) After depositing money, I consistently get more AA, KK, QQ, AK, etc. than I typically would get in a live game --- except when you running really, really hot. They often hold up. I double up within a few sessions. Feels great. I'm loving it... getting into the pattern.

Second part of cycle) After playing little while, I still get many strong opening hands than in normal "live poker" and I flop more sets and strong made-hands than I typically see in live poker. But they DONT hold up. In fact, three of the past 3 sets I flopped ON A DRY BOARD, lost runner, runner. Rebuy... back to first part of cycle.

Does anyone else experience this pattern? It seems to repeat fairly consistently. I do well in Live poker... there seem to be so many MORE "illogical" hands on-line. Not complaining here... but you know what you know.

What concerns me the most is that a disreputable gaming site could manipulate a TINY percentage of their hands -- so small that ANY statistical analysis (e.g., by a gaming commission) would show everything falls within reasonable variance. A good coder could almost instantly make this capability integral to the gaming system -- and within seconds, remove that section of the code, encrypt it, and stow it in some unrelated disk location. Auditors would never find it. Statistics could never prove it. But the insiders would make MANY MILLIONS more than they would running a fair game. Greed is a strong motivator as we saw in 2008 when all the sites that everyone said "were making enough on the rake and had no need to cheat" were cheating (employees/consultants playing as superusers).

The last piece of the puzzle... by switching it up and frequently make new bots/accounts they could easily prevent a superuser from being singled out as a statistical anomaly (this broke the 2008 scandal).

So the (often paid) poker lobbyists will respond with how I'm just another sore lose (I don't lose enough on-line to really care about the money piece of it).

I'm more interested to know if anyone else sees this "pattern". I'm just trying to see if I am the anomaly or if something weird is going on.

Yes that pretty much sums it up. Again I never tracked anything to put %s on it or anything like that but its what I've sensed several times over. It has put me on the move to other poker sites to see if it is the same. I am currently trying BOL and ACR. I like ACR much more so far but I do miss the anonymity of ignition....

 

[qb93]

Online poker Rigged or Not?

Is it just me or does everyone feel the same?

With certain hands, preflop, flop, turn and on the river, if you don’t make a certain bet amount, you bound to loose the hand, no matter your odds!

Or if you don’t go all-in first and just call, you can kiss your chips goodbye!

 

[BHowell44]

Random number generator=not rigged. The ones who continually lose are the ones who say it is rigged. You have to remember when you are playing online you see and play so many more hands than you normally would in a live game so it is so easy to think that the bad beats happen more than usual, but in reality, you are just playing more hands without realizing it.

 

[MemphisGrind]

Is it just me or does everyone feel the same?

With certain hands, preflop, flop, turn and on the river, if you don’t make a certain bet amount, you bound to loose the hand, no matter your odds!

Or if you don’t go all-in first and just call, you can kiss your chips goodbye!

No, I don't feel the same. This sounds fatuous...

"With certain hands, preflop, flop, turn and on the river, if you don’t make a certain bet amount, you bound to loose the hand, no matter your odds!"
Not, even close to true... where you got this from I would like to know? It doesn't even make sense....

"Or if you don’t go all-in first and just call, you can kiss your chips goodbye!"
Another nonsensical statement.. Because everyone is shoving their stacks constantly with air and getting there... yea right? In my time playing online poker I have seen some above average play mostly when I was playing 1000NL you don't see as much of this consistent all in.. however, playing the free rolls like I am now for this challenge I'm doing. I have seen players do exactly what you're describing... They will constantly shove all in and win and next thing you know, they are in first place with a 3 to 1 chip lead on second place. You know what happens after that though... within 2 orbits they are not only out of the first place position, but felted as well. That style can work for a short period of time, but you WILL NOT find anyone consistently winning in the long term with that play style. For you to feel that if you don't go all in first and just call you will lose is just foolish.

 

[stackedmegaman]

Play your opponent ... not just the cards.
Not rigged.

 

[venycyos]

Does not exist at this, what is there is luck in a few hands.

 

[qb93]

Play your opponent ... not just the cards.
Not rigged.

Yeah that’s true[emoji1362]thanks

 

[Shade768]

People who claim this have all had a very bad beat. It happens, we just have to live with it. Just remain focused on the game (I don't alt tab, I always watch my opponents when I have folded, I learn what hands they play, etc.). Keep making the correct decision and you'll be a winner in the long run. You just can't win every tournament, luck plays a part (albeit a small one).
Cheers

 

[Pokerguy6666]

Play your opponent ... not just the cards.
Not rigged.

I completely agree.

 

[VITOS]

Poker-rum will always be the largest winner in poker, he receives the money regardless of how distribution comes to an end. One of the reasons for which many people are convinced that the online poker is forged is the fact that most of players loses. By the most conservative estimates about 70% of players lose in online in the long term. This unfortunate reality of online poker will hardly change in the nearest future. So what?", - you ask. The matter is that most of these losing players are convinced that their game skills are good, and their losses are caused by the roguish nature of online poker. Such players simply try to shift responsibility for the failures from themselves to others!

 

[Joshua_Kane]

I think online poker is as legit as it can possibly be. IMO these companies are making enough off the rake that they don’t need to rig the game.

 

[pokersextreme]

Honestly i don't know but i think they mostly pay the highrollers!

 

[crisco609]

I think online poker is as legit as it can possibly be. IMO these companies are making enough off the rake that they don’t need to rig the game.

That's very true - these companies are making millions of dollars from the sites which once implemented only require maintenance/support and security. Not to mention that if any site got caught giving certain players and edge over other players would absolutely destroy them, from millionaire to being in debt overnight type destroy them. Buuuuut on the other hand human greed has been known to be an insatiable desire, just because they are rich doesn't mean they won't cheat/steal/lie to become even richer.

I do agree with you though, I don't believe they're rigged (at least not the big ones), I have to chose to believe they aren't rigged, I enjoy online poker too much (even as a losing player) to believe such things without any hard evidence. There's many different conspiracies out there about these poker sites helping others cheat, or even creating bots of their own to play on the site and steal money... both some very big accusations which would require some hard evidence to convince me of that.

 

[aces4allin]

sure feels that way at times lol