Random Number Generators (RNG)- Are they really that random?

[Chipmaster45]

SopianaeExtra,

I am indeed playing at small levels (never more than 3$ per tourney) and yet I still encounter individuals like I mentioned previously.

They treat all tournaments (apparently) like they were freerolls. This makes it exceedingly difficult to advance financially or situationally (in a given tournament).

 

[I Live Poker]

What hinders you then to exploit this RNG-artificialness and also play at a worse level than where you're actually at?

Invest ten, twenty dollars and play (at the lowest stakes possible) like an absolute idiot. If you're correct, you should easily multiply that money. And if you still lose, well, it's not much of a loss anyway. If I were as convinced as you, I'd have started doing just that a long time ago.

And the worst part is that you get the same thing playing like a complete idiot.

 

[fundiver199]

They treat all tournaments (apparently) like they were freerolls. This makes it exceedingly difficult to advance financially or situationally (in a given tournament).

If people play poorly, that makes it easier for you to win, not more difficult. The issue is in your own mind, and its called tilt. As most other people you hate getting drawn out on, you hate losing to bad hands etc. But this is just part of poker. And what separate long term winners from breakeven or slightly losing players AKA "bad regs" is, that long term winners have learned to handle their tilt issues.

 

[Chipmaster45]

fundiver,

How can you equate what I have experienced as "being on tilt"? That phrase is in connection to someone who has the lowest stack on the table and just goes all in all the time in order to get something back (as far as chip stacks are concerned), and yet I just stated that this is something that other players are doing, not me.

I always play my cards carefully, concisely, and wisely, "tilt" has nothing to do with other players at any given table repeatedly going all in on what I know to be marginal hole cards at best (high combination of over cards, small or medium sized pocket pairs, etc.).

The reason I am aware of what they are going all in with is because I have played poker, both online and off, for a long time and am well aware of how players will raise when they feel that they have an unbeatable hand (much like the hands I described above).

The problem arises when I am dealt cards like J-2, Q-4, or some similarly awful hands that I could not even begin to call them with. Doing so would make me no better than the individuals I find fault with for playing actual money tournaments like they were freerolls.

 

[SopianaeExtra]

Ok dude, but why do you write in such a large font?

 

[I Live Poker]

If people play poorly, that makes it easier for you to win, not more difficult. The issue is in your own mind, and its called tilt. As most other people you hate getting drawn out on, you hate losing to bad hands etc. But this is just part of poker. And what separate long term winners from breakeven or slightly losing players AKA "bad regs" is, that long term winners have learned to handle their tilt issues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4mqYo_Q4r4

I found a way to tilt and not influence my game, I just don't care while I'm playing. my tilt comes off the table after I stop playing and absorb the current day's information.then...

 

[puzzlefish]

fundiver,

How can you equate what I have experienced as "being on tilt"? That phrase is in connection to someone who has the lowest stack on the table and just goes all in all the time in order to get something back (as far as chip stacks are concerned), and yet I just stated that this is something that other players are doing, not me.

I always play my cards carefully, concisely, and wisely, "tilt" has nothing to do with other players at any given table repeatedly going all in on what I know to be marginal hole cards at best (high combination of over cards, small or medium sized pocket pairs, etc.).

The reason I am aware of what they are going all in with is because I have played poker, both online and off, for a long time and am well aware of how players will raise when they feel that they have an unbeatable hand (much like the hands I described above).

The problem arises when I am dealt cards like J-2, Q-4, or some similarly awful hands that I could not even begin to call them with. Doing so would make me no better than the individuals I find fault with for playing actual money tournaments like they were freerolls.

When you know, you know.

 

[Lipki3]

I believe that the RNG at PokerStars works as it should. At least over 60,000 hands, all pocket pairs were in the normal range.

 

[puzzlefish]

I believe that the RNG at PokerStars works as it should. At least over 60,000 hands, all pocket pairs were in the normal range.

What's a normal range?

 

[ICU1234]

What's a normal range?

It says it in the name. Puzzlefish

I think this is when the monkey climbs the golden gate Bridge. Confusing randomness with odds. My aces win 80 percent of the time. My aces are just winning over 40% of the time. How does that prove anything. My flips are about 45% and his is 21%. The answer will always be it even out in the volume.

I love reading your stuff. But you have to agree proving randomness is impossible if there'sa chance it could happen. Now your opinion could be one way or another. But proof. Skepticism has prevented me from depositing. But not playing. I'm going crazy ever sense I've started playing more online than live. Crazy

 

[puzzlefish]

It says it in the name. Puzzlefish

I think this is when the monkey climbs the golden gate Bridge. Confusing randomness with odds. My aces win 80 percent of the time. My aces are just winning over 40% of the time. How does that prove anything. My flips are about 45% and his is 21%. The answer will always be it even out in the volume.

I love reading your stuff. But you have to agree proving randomness is impossible if there'sa chance it could happen. Now your opinion could be one way or another. But proof. Skepticism has prevented me from depositing. But not playing. I'm going crazy ever sense I've started playing more online than live. Crazy

Well, you're for sure not the only one going crazy. I just don't think that we have the capability to prove anything on these forums. I think I have seen enough sun-running sessions, both in my favour and in other players, to be convinced that something isn't right. Proving it would be a public service but unfortunately both the data and means to analyze it just isn't available.

 

[ICU1234]

Well, you're for sure not the only one going crazy. I just don't think that we have the capability to prove anything on these forums. I think I have seen enough sun-running sessions, both in my favour and in other players, to be convinced that something isn't right. Proving it would be a public service but unfortunately both the data and means to analyze it just isn't available.

Give you a good place to start. Last two days I have noticed chasing/ calling station's have hit 17/19 times all in on turn. I don't play many hands without position and make my play late. I've made a killing identifying bad play like chasing live.

Other crazy is 79% of my pocket pairs run into a flop with 1 over card (excluding aces) and a under pair. That's just crazy. I'm afraid I've started looking for oddities rather than work around them. Even crazier in still in the green and that's without depositing. I have deposited at one site. My friend was like try this site it's so sick. I thought sick was a good thing. No it's really sick algorithm.

 

[thedarkman]

Bad players get lucky more often than good players because they play garbage hands and call wildly against pot odds. But do they win money, that's the real question.

 

[skaterick]

are RNG's constantly cycling ?

what sets me tilt is wondering if i had paused a tenth of a second more before clicking the allin button the flop, turn or river would have been different... and i might not have taken a horrible bubble beat in a big online event !

 

[skaterick]

students of some philosophical theories propose

that nothing is truly random . believers of 'hard determinism' argue nothing (and nobody ) ever really has a choice about anything .obviously a comet or an object on the moon never has a choice ... what makes us think we organisms do ? we are simply a chemical/physical process at every level and thus no true decision ever .the idea at its fundamental level is this : every atom in the universe has a position , a direction and a velocity and thus the next instant is also determined exactly ! over and over forever like billiard balls on a seemingly nearly infinite table .

 

[blueskies]

Sorry it was 11 SnGs, when I made my post in january, and not 8. Still the point remains the same. When you have only played such a small number of regular games, you have not even tried to beat them, so you can not say, if this is possible "playing proper poker". Having played more than 800 freerolls changes nothing, since per definition everyone are winning in freerolls.

Since you are implying cardschat freeroll players suck so doing well in the freerolls mean nothing, I will tell you that you are wrong. CC players on average are significantly better than the people at bottom level micro stakes at ACR. I would like to see you try the cardschat freerolls and see what your results are.

Anyway, like I said I have played many hands on ACR 2NL but I no longer do. I am at BOL even though there's no rakeback there.

 

[digdug0037]

some days we all wonder, would be nice to actually have regulated site in the states so we could feel better about it. I mean sites actually within our borders.

 

[fletchdad]

what sets me tilt is wondering if i had paused a tenth of a second more before clicking the allin button the flop, turn or river would have been different... and i might not have taken a horrible bubble beat in a big online event !

I do not know how things currently are done, but I know some sites used to have a so-called constant shuffle. So if you took 1 second longer to make your decision, the cards would be different. This was - as I understood it at the time - to make any possibility of knowing what order the cards are coming not possible.

 

[beatlebug]

It seems to me that random numbers are not really being shown. It is hard for the random numbers to come out.

Beatlebug

 

[T1ltmonkey]

Are RNGs really random?

Yes. They are.

I am not aware of anyone anywhere being able to prove otherwise, despite all the trackers and software at player’s disposal today, and despite all major/serious sites being checked by regulatory authorities.
On the other hand, we humans are pattern-searching creatures and tend to see things that are not really there. Also, we poker players tend to remember the bad beats while forgetting all the times we ourselves sucked out. And third, I think many players don’t really understand variance.

I am not claiming online poker is never ever rigged anywhere, but so far I haven’t seen any credible evidence against RNGs.

If you want to worry, worry about collusion on unregulated sites with relaxed attitudes towards multi-accounting and/or ip-security.

 

[MrrrRock]

i will not comment because of the censorship
oh wait i just commented

 

[Pavel1203733]

To recognize the wrong generator, you need to be a very cool programmer.
Simple statistics. Billions of hands have already been played on PS. Even if the probability of the situation is 0.0008%, there can be several thousand such hands in a row and the average statistics will still remain the same.
It's very frustrating to lose with the second nuts, especially on the river. But everything happens. I, like many others, know this.

 

[beatlebug]

I am not sure they are that random in spite of playing the game. It seems like they do not play the random numbers that need to be played.

Beatlebug

 

[research]

Are RNGs really random?

I am not aware of anyone anywhere being able to prove otherwise, despite all the trackers and software at player’s disposal today, and despite all major/serious sites being checked by regulatory authorities.

On the other hand, I am not aware of anyone PROVING anywhere that they are truly random, we are supposed to take their word for it with no MATHEMATICAL proof. It is random I had it tested is NOT proof.

And third, I think many players don’t really understand variance.

I totally agree 99% of players don't understand what variance is.

I am not claiming online poker is never ever rigged anywhere, but so far I haven’t seen any credible evidence against RNGs.

You won't ever see any credible evidence unless a site releases it's algorythm, which they won't. So until an insider or hacker gets their hands on one it will never be able to be proved.

 

[Polytarp]

I just caught this thread and intend to read it fully later. For those inquiring minds assessing poker RNG's..have you heard of the Mersenne Twister..as a start? Zorba, as usual, good information!