After seeing yet another online poker is rigged thread I want to ask this WHY?

roger perkins

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  • #26
paintedbynumbers said:
Bad beats are a part of life. Good quote. Many sites can easily fix the "is online poker rigged" by offering a bad beat jackpot. Some sites do this. the sites that do very rarely see a 1-2- outer on a river. They also rarely see Quads. Wonder why.

Pokerstars is an example of horrible software currently. I am convinced they use a SQL based server and set the action on high. Why would they do this? It helps get more people in hands and speed up tournaments. Ever notice A or K hit 9 flops out of 10? Ever notice that if an A or K doesn't hit that the board will pair itself? Not a coincidence.

People ask what do they have to gain. The answer is simple. Rebuys and more deposits. If you don't believe that these sites can track how often people deposit money you are kidding yourselves. Sure they may throw you a few bones, but if they know you are just going to rebuy or deposit anyway why wouldn't they rig it against you.

Someone mentioned the casino bonus. I have done the $10 casino bonus every day for the past 2 months with Pokerstars. 90% of the time I get the 25% bonus casino play. I play the bonus and have actually played through twice to actually make a profit. The funny thing is while I am playing through I can hit bonus after bonus. Once I am in the profit stage I don't hit the bonus at all. It's weird to explain. I will say though that the Pokerstars slots seem to pay a lot more than Bovada and other sites.

You throw a lot of I've seen this out there. Have you? Do you have actual proof that A or K are in 90% of flops? Please take your next 10 flops and post them I would like to see that. I tell you what Ill keep track of my next 10 flops to see if you are even close. Also that 10th flop has to have a pair in it.
Now the "why wouldn't they rig it against you" because they don't have to. If a site is perceived fair and honest by a majority of players they have no problem "RAKE"ing in the cash. Why would someone risk Billions of dollars to get your $25 dollar deposit? Yes the site could keep track of who deposits but if you screw them wouldn't a smart person stop depositing? Also lets say at a 9 person table do they search every ones history then decide how to deal the cards? Then they change they way they deal everytime a new player sits down? If you have any actual data please present it but so far you have not convinced me in the least.
 
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  • #27
I could care less if I convince you. However I did the 50% casino bonus deposit. With the bonus money I am now playing the Hendrix slot and have hit the pick and click bonus 3 consecutive times in a row. Do you think this would be happening if it wasn't with the bonus cash? I don't
 
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  • #28
paintedbynumbers said:
I could care less if I convince you. However I did the 50% casino bonus deposit. With the bonus money I am now playing the Hendrix slot and have hit the pick and click bonus 3 consecutive times in a row. Do you think this would be happening if it wasn't with the bonus cash? I don't


OP is not referring to online casino games. This is about 'poker'. There's a huge difference.
Personally I would never play any online casino game... and fwiw, I've received many $5 casino bonus $'s which I never accept or play with... because I'm not interested. I prefer playing a skill-based game where I can compete against other players. I have played a bit of blackjack online many years ago, but I didn't trust it. It was only to gain a freeroll entry that had decent value for me to play in at the time.
If you told me that online casino games are rigged. I wouldn't doubt it. Poker though.. I've never spent any time wasted on wondering or believing it's rigged once I'd played for ~3mos.
 
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  • #29
paintedbynumbers said:
I could care less if I convince you. However I did the 50% casino bonus deposit. With the bonus money I am now playing the Hendrix slot and have hit the pick and click bonus 3 consecutive times in a row. Do you think this would be happening if it wasn't with the bonus cash? I don't


So then why did you post?
My next question to you is why do you continue to play on a site that you think is rigged against you?
Last comment this is not a troll site where I'm trying to insult anyone. I'm just asking all the "poker sites are rigged people" to prove it. Hell if someone proves they are I for one will stop playing at that site.
 
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  • #30
Some sites feel more random than others

Wherever there is money, there will be people trying to get a piece of it. Sites have cheating don't you doubt. Is turning a blind eye to cheaters considered rigging? Anybody that has been there with 6 bots and 1 real human, both laughing knows darn well what I mean. Once I reported to sites 97 times and they are still playing 24 hours a day. All who sat with me knows what I mean. No proof necessary. Proof all over youtube already.
 
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  • #31
roger perkins said:
Im talking about the major players not the small fly by night sites. Why would say Pokerstars care who wins or loses? I will try and counter any claims you can make. Maybe I can or maybe I cant we will see.


I can't speak for Pokerstars, but I think the rigging is beneficial to an online poker company because there are far more average/bad players than there are good ones. So, you want to throw them a bone, enough so they keep coming back.

Now, I believe it is difficult to single out players and favor them over others -- speaking solely based on my experience as a software developer -- but not at all impossible. It takes a LOT of work... It is, however, less difficult to favor a hand (or not) during each street. Some basic stats on a player based on a slice of their history in the current game, over several recent games, or even all of them, become realistic very quickly. Trust me, these companies have the resources to do this.

Quantify that and correlate it with how much the player is willing to deposit in a given week (this is not hard to do), and bingo, you've got your favorite! They don't even have to win a tournament, just feel like they're able to or cash once in a while.

And you want your crappy, average-joe player re-depositing for as long as you can milk them. So, to hell with the good ones. They'll just cost you (the company) in the long run.

I think the exception might be during some higher stakes games. You probably don't want to mess with those as they can quickly and adversely affect your reputation as a company if the players feel they're being cheated.

In the end, as the old saying goes, CAVEAT EMPTOR... you have to remember this is just software. It's naive to think there isn't anything fishy going on somewhere in the application stack.
 
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  • #32
Online poker isn’t rigged. Third party sites test the poker software. If it was rigged, someone working for the poker sites would of gotten the word out by now and there would be lawsuits.
 
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bellicoso

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  • #33
gambit1983 said:
Online poker isn’t rigged. Third party sites test the poker software. If it was rigged, someone working for the poker sites would of gotten the word out by now and there would be lawsuits.


This is just naive. To have a blanket statement like that, that "online poker" as a whole isn't rigged, is just silly. :elefant:
 
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  • #34
I don't think it's rigged although I sometimes have this feeling but I can find few reasons why to rig it.

If someone deposits I would let them have some lucky coinflips and rivers, because this will develop a positive feeling attached to puting money to the site. After few days I would reverse this strategy to make them lose and deposit again.

If someone signs in but doesn't deposit I would help them in the freerols, so they get some free cash to play and get addicted to playing money. Later on I would let them lose everything hoping that they would deposit.

If someone only plays freerols and never deposits after some time I would make them lose everything to either force them to deposit or leave.

Generally speaking I think a site could increase its profits by this kind of cheating but it would kill them if discovered so I'm not sure if it's worth it.
 
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  • #35
what stupid people will never accept is poker rooms earn money whit rake, THERE IS NO NEED TO CHEAT PEOPLE IN GAMES, that won't make them earn more money, ok they could still use other bad practice like inventing ridiculous cashout requirements or lying about ( like Intertops does) and inventing promotions to keep people depositing more than withdrawing.
but the truth is luck is part of the poker i don't give a shit about "pro players" says, you still need luck to win, it´s also truth that you can reduce variance playing slow tournaments. but honestly several times i have played hours doing almost no mistakes (really) to finish kicked out with a good hand with more than 70% of chances to win. but after all, that is poker, it's no a conspiracy against you to avoid winning.
 
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  • #36
Other Means

I was thinking that "the poker sites don't need to cheat or anything they just do what casinos and other gamboling establishments have done since their inception. They "stack the deck" so to speak. In older times the casino would have a ringer at the table that is on the casino's payroll. This ringer would sit there draining the table of money that would go back into the casino's pocket, minus the players commission. However this could get costly for the casino if their players started losing too often.

With online poker this is much easier to do instead of paying a player a commission, the poker site just needs their best IT guy/gal to make a few bots. You don't need to have the bots receive any advantage, like seeing what the whole hands cards are or anything, just have them win and lose like any other player. Then you don't have to pay any commission to players and sometimes the paying spots in any tournament or table could be working for the poker site.

With that being said I think truly that KristaK said it best!!


The key with this issue, of anger, of disappointment, or feeling things are rigged against you is to evaluate your level of entitlement.

If for whatever reason you think you deserve more, to win all the time, to do better than others, then you are experiencing entitlement which is unhealthy and doesn't serve you.

If however you accept the reality that everyone wins their fair share of hands, and just as often as they will get lucky do to will you, then you can play from a healthy place.
If entitlement is in your game, it's better to address this before playing more poker.

When you have unrealistic expectations about how often or how much you should win, you will usually end up experiencing disappointment which can lead to beliefs that the game is rigged against you because your mind is trying to rationalize/justify your position that you should win."
 
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  • #37
I think this is pointless, just like this thread.
 
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  • #38
Lazrek001 said:
With online poker this is much easier to do instead of paying a player a commission, the poker site just needs their best IT guy/gal to make a few bots. You don't need to have the bots receive any advantage, like seeing what the whole hands cards are or anything, just have them win and lose like any other player.

This is interesting. Sometimes indeed the guy just calls all-in with absolutely nothing, hitting runner-runner like he knew what was comming. I never thought of that possibility before that poker room could actually have these kind of bots or so.
 
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  • #39
It is a pity that this type of thing is happening because confidence in online poker is lost ...
 
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okeedokalee

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  • #40
You will hear people trying to tell you freerolls are rigged!
On Cardschat recently there has been a large increase in new player freeroll participation.
Many of these players are coming from a play chip environment, have no idea how to play, and make a lot of silly calls that get through and crack big hands.
The volume of these players, doing silly things and winning, is the reason you are losing. Not because the game is rigged.
There is one obvious solution for those who think poker is rigged, don't participate.
 
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  • #41
my theory falls into 3 categories as why someone might claim online poker is rigged. it could be one of the reasons or a combination of all 3.

1. they don't understand variance, how it works, and how it can impact the result of a hand.

for example, lets say we take aks vs 67s, all-in preflop. lets say ak flops 2 pair, but 67 rivers a gutshot straight. must be a bad beat because they rivered a 4 outer, right? well, no because 67s is winning 40% of the time when the money is all-in preflop. that 40% equity it has already combines all possible winable outcomes for 67s, including hitting a gut shot straight on the river.

2. they have feelings of things being unjust because some things work for others, but not for them. i see it all the time "donks hit 4 outers when i'm in a hand, but it never works for me" or "i can't hit when i have 16 outs, but these donks hit their miracle cards on the river all the time". here, they're looking at short term results (and also not understanding short term variance), instead of seeing the big picture, which is making +ev decisions over the long run. instead, they focus too much on individual hands or results. which is why you get people saying things like "i lost with aces 7x in a row, it must be rigged". what about all the other aces you've played before this? what about all the aces you're going to play in the next 1 million hands?

3. in mtts, they don't understand losses are going to be a huge part of the game. not only are mtts notoriously variance heavy, but you can expect to lose a lot when you play them. lets look at how much mtts are stacked against you:
a) you're going to bust out of more mtts than you cash. standard itm is between 10-20%, so you don't cash in 80-90/100 mtts you play.
b) you're going to lose money over large downswings are that inevitable in mtts. it's not uncommon to go on 20-40+ downswings or breakeven runs without a cash/significant cash. this is more so the larger the field and the less of and edge you have.
c) you're going to lose a lot of hands in key spots that'll bust you. in an mtt, you can get lucky and win 10 flips in a row, but the 11th flip you lose and competely busts you out of the tournament before you cash. it's brutal but that's how it is sometimes.

but mtts aren't about winning more hands than you lose or cashing in more games than you don't. it's about making +ev decisions so you profit in the long run. look at any good poker pro that has an itm of 20%, but still has millions in profits. how are they making so much if they only cash in 20% of their mtts? because they set themselves up to win/cash big when they do run good.

i believe ryan laplante said something along the lines of, when he plays live games, he'll go 6 months to a year of just downswings, then win 1 major mtt that'll bring him huge profits, then just repeat the process.
 
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  • #42
Global Poker Rigged or Silly?

I think "x site is a scam" is used by a lot of new or bad players to justify their losses. BUT I think some sites are in fact rigged in some way or just up to some ****ery. Global Poker, in this instance, does not use an RNG; most people don't know this, but in their TOS it includes the following piece: "All hands are individual game events, the winner is predetermined." The only thing that changes it is if the winning hand has been folded. This is why it is legal here in the States. And this is why Global Poker is notorious for heart attack worthy bad beats. What's the motive for doing this? I don't know, it might simply be to get around the law, but the fact that it is a thing should worry every player on the site.

Now, is it rigged in someone's favor? I guess it could be. I guess there could be a set amount of house accounts that are set to win more hands than lose, or just favor them in more hands on average. Or maybe most of the accounts are set to lose more? People will always say, "but I'm a winning player", as if that proves something. Some people have to win for the site to exist haha.
Speaking to some players, they've mentioned that there are certain accounts you see in every tournament--which isn't abnormal in itself--that make some atrocious plays and always seem to win. I'm talking about reraising a four bet from a dude with high PPs with 72off out of position and flopping the nuts. Of course though, that person could just be a degen maniac, but when it happens a lot, it seems kind of fishy.
Also, my anecdote: I seem to win enough to stay right around even haha. I'm not a pro, but I don't suck, but I always seem to get hit with a long string a bad beats/card dead after making a certain amount of money. Again, that's not proof, just my story. Humans are pattern sinking creatures, and I'm particularly neurotic haha.



With all that said, I'm not sure if they're rigged, a scam, or legit, but the sweepstakes model seems really really fishy, and it wouldn't be too hard to rig that.
 
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fruittree

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  • #43
brandofresh said:
I think "x site is a scam" is used by a lot of new or bad players to justify their losses. BUT I think some sites are in fact rigged in some way or just up to some ****ery. Global Poker, in this instance, does not use an RNG; most people don't know this, but in their TOS it includes the following piece: "All hands are individual game events, the winner is predetermined." The only thing that changes it is if the winning hand has been folded. This is why it is legal here in the States. And this is why Global Poker is notorious for heart attack worthy bad beats. What's the motive for doing this? I don't know, it might simply be to get around the law, but the fact that it is a thing should worry every player on the site.

Now, is it rigged in someone's favor? I guess it could be. I guess there could be a set amount of house accounts that are set to win more hands than lose, or just favor them in more hands on average. Or maybe most of the accounts are set to lose more? People will always say, "but I'm a winning player", as if that proves something. Some people have to win for the site to exist haha.
Speaking to some players, they've mentioned that there are certain accounts you see in every tournament--which isn't abnormal in itself--that make some atrocious plays and always seem to win. I'm talking about reraising a four bet from a dude with high PPs with 72off out of position and flopping the nuts. Of course though, that person could just be a degen maniac, but when it happens a lot, it seems kind of fishy.
Also, my anecdote: I seem to win enough to stay right around even haha. I'm not a pro, but I don't suck, but I always seem to get hit with a long string a bad beats/card dead after making a certain amount of money. Again, that's not proof, just my story. Humans are pattern sinking creatures, and I'm particularly neurotic haha.



With all that said, I'm not sure if they're rigged, a scam, or legit, but the sweepstakes model seems really really fishy, and it wouldn't be too hard to rig that.


I believe it is done to end tournys sooner.
So the next tourny fills quicker
Ever site has so many players, most dont play cash games.
So ending tourys quicker....is more money in site owners pockets....this makes sense & Dollars!
 
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  • #44
Oh wow, that's an excellent point.

fruittree said:
I believe it is done to end tournys sooner.
So the next tourny fills quicker
Ever site has so many players, most dont play cash games.
So ending tourys quicker....is more money in site owners pockets....this makes sense & Dollars!

Do you play on GP? And have you seen any issues/the same issue?
 
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  • #45
brandofresh said:
Do you play on GP? And have you seen any issues/the same issue?

Mostly ACR...But I also play at Intertops and Grand poker. Less noticeable @ those 2
 
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  • #46
fruittree said:
Mostly ACR...But I also play at Intertops and Grand poker. Less noticeable @ those 2

Yea, I switched to ACR, it's so much better. I've only been playing on GP bec. my computer is getting fixed, and it's the only site(I know) that you can access on your phone. I tried to on ACR, but I couldn't find the tourneys, it appears to have limited options....or I'm retarded.
 
emk4976

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  • #47
I have played online ,on big and small sites and have played live in a few wsop event. I have seen the same crazy hands in both. I think one reason they say its rigged is it has alot to do with how they are running. Along with how much gamble the person has verses you and the amount of hands you play online compared to live play. You play way more hands online per hour then you do in live play.
 
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  • #48
okeedokalee said:
You will hear people trying to tell you Freerolls are rigged!
On Cardschat recently there has been a large increase in new player freeroll participation.
Many of these players are coming from a play chip environment, have no idea how to play, and make a lot of silly calls that get through and crack big hands.
The volume of these players, doing silly things and winning, is the reason you are losing. Not because the game is rigged.
There is one obvious solution for those who think poker is rigged, don't participate.



Exactly!


Also, it is VERY COMMON for NEWER players to start believing that poker is rigged. It's not til' they've either a) been around for awhile or b) actually got educated on variance.... learn what it's really about.

Personally I got annoyed with all of the garbage written and am glad a lot of it gets placed where it belongs (the MEGA THREAD).
I need to turn this thinking around and be grateful there are sooooo many bad players participating in the games these days (still) and that even when they think it's rigged against 'them' (for some reason... why not against others?).. they STILL play.

And don't you just love some of the conspiracy theories...
like how the site rewards donkeys so they'll continue to play & deposit.
Guess what... if the donks are rigged to win, they don't need to deposit, LOL (they forget that part though).
How does one become rated as a donk to begin with? Once they start winning due to bein' pegged by the co. as a donk.... don't their results then make it appear that they are no longer a donk... and then they'll have to be re-classified until they're once again losing enough to go back into the donk category. ... lol sooooo ridiculous!

I love it too when you get some guy(s) who attempt to speak all eloquently (< did I spell that correctly?) and try to suggest that it'd be soooooo easy to rig the software to favor certain players in certain spots., etc. And they often know (or are one themselves) some software engineer or some sh1te. What a load of crap! We actually used to have a regular poster on CC (dmorris) who dispelled that 'myth' regularly. His statements were that it'd be extremely difficult to do, especially to be able to do so and have it undetected.

AND.. don't you love it that soooo many of the rigged believers play an avg. buyin of 10 cents. Tell me how are they getting a decent sample from the freerolls & penny games when you have 5 players to a flop & the most ridiculous play EVER. ????

I need to do my best to avoid any posts/threads with anything rigtard related.
 
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  • #49
fruittree said:
Mostly ACR...But I also play at Intertops and Grand poker. Less noticeable @ those 2


Tell us please what are the difference? How do you detect them? How do you keep track of it? How do you know it's actually happening and it's not just within expectation? Is the sample size big enough to tell you this info. accurately?

I'm just so curious as to how it all works..... :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
 
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  • #50
TongueLashin said:
Wherever there is money, there will be people trying to get a piece of it. Sites have cheating don't you doubt. Is turning a blind eye to cheaters considered rigging? Anybody that has been there with 6 bots and 1 real human, both laughing knows darn well what I mean. Once I reported to sites 97 times and they are still playing 24 hours a day. All who sat with me knows what I mean. No proof necessary. Proof all over youtube already.


Wow! I guess this is why it is difficult to get a quick response from customer support when a customer has an issue. Think about the huge amount of money wasted by the poker sites on their customer support workers due to all of the lunatics who write to them (I'm sure they must get 1,000's of rigged complaints on a daily basis.... what a nightmare and a huge waste of manpower). If they didn't get all of those stupid emails, maybe they could lower their rake fees???
 
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