Pokerstars Customer Service

[kunnykel]

So I'll attach my conversation with pokerstars customer service. I can say im a little let down and annoyed. A simple request ignored. A request that prior to Flutter Entertainment taking control was fulfilled and provided.

Now I make a specific request for a report on my sessions in certain scenarios as I dont use tracking software anymore and many others dont either. Something does seem off to me with the probabilities and my fair share of being on the wrong side of the expected outcomes.

What's more alarming is the fact my request is treated like a pokerstars is rigged rant. Which dont get me wrong they get a shit load of. Just gotta Google it and it's everywhere. My request is specific to my concerns and suspicious of unexpected deviance and instead of treating my request like sure here's the data you requested and everything checks out normal no concerns. Im just given the entire cut and paste response about RNG being tested bla bla bla. Just provide me the data. My guess there has been a legal and corporate decision to no longer provide this independent data to individuals because it can be used as evidence of any manipulation and liability.

They even admit as much in the conversation that the RNG is monitored and tested in house. To do this they would have yhe tracking software and means to provide my reports I requested. Their response in so contradictory.

The fact they outright refuse to provide this data to quench my concerns shows utter disregard and respect to the customer.

They also refused to tell me why the decion was made to no longer provide individual data reports. After I asked her twice. After the second time and telling her I can prove they have sent me personal reports in the past she abruptly ended the conversation.

Ill also add that these data tracking requests used to be provided on demand at all U.K casinos in the past also. So what's changed? I've noticed that since all large Betting, Slotting and poker sites have been brought out they all tell you that they cannot provide you the customer the data anymore?

Oh and let's not forget the very start of this conversation she tells me she'll put the request in to compile the report as its quite specific she couldn't put a time frame on it? So why come back on that with the RNG is audited response? Sorry to say but im losing faith and trust in Pokerstars.

What's your thoughts on this?

 

[Sunz of Beaches]

Hard to believe pokerstars ever tracked such "riggie" statistics mentioned by OP and also provided their customers with them.

And if they really did this then its kind of understandable they stopped it at some point since its not really usefull to anyone apart of maybe some thin-foilers who are in search of answers for their theorys.

 

[moots]

My request is specific to my concerns and suspicious of unexpected deviance

What deviance do you expect? Maybe the deviance you expect does not occur in 1000 games, maybe it occurs in 10000 or even 100000 games.

 

[Ruinkind]

Hard to believe pokerstars ever tracked such "riggie" statistics mentioned by OP and also provided their customers with them.

And if they really did this then its kind of understandable they stopped it at some point since its not really usefull to anyone apart of maybe some thin-foilers who are in search of answers for their theorys.

You don't understand, he lost all his money, clearly rigged.

One guy was on here posting about "fairness algorithm" being a set jackpot, I think it failed this guy. 😂😂

 

[kunnykel]

Hard to believe pokerstars ever tracked such "riggie" statistics mentioned by OP and also provided their customers with them.

And if they really did this then its kind of understandable they stopped it at some point since its not really usefull to anyone apart of maybe some thin-foilers who are in search of answers for their theorys.

Never once in my OP did i say "riggie" statistics?????? Once the relevance of your message here? Nothing till foil in requesting the company thats supposed to be legit a statistical report on your hand histories. Its considered and normal request.

Your basically saying that if the UKGC or an Auditor requested such reports then they they are tin foil hat conspiracy theorists too!

Like the other replies I see nothing but the standard attempt to shut a thread down with the outcry of "oooh look another player who's lost all his money and is claiming rigged, or scammed or cheated bla bla bla. So boring!!!!

 

[Ruinkind]

Never once in my OP did i say "riggie" statistics?????? Once the relevance of your message here? Nothing till foil in requesting the company thats supposed to be legit a statistical report on your hand histories. Its considered and normal request.

Your basically saying that if the UKGC or an Auditor requested such reports then they they are tin foil hat conspiracy theorists too!

Like the other replies I see nothing but the standard attempt to shut a thread down with the outcry of "oooh look another player who's lost all his money and is claiming rigged, or scammed or cheated bla bla bla. So boring!!!!

Probably because in your messages to support staff you're attacking them on the validity of the RNG generator, its a regulated site, I'd suggest moving elsewhere if you don't enjoy it.

 

[kunnykel]

Probably because in your messages to support staff you're attacking them on the validity of the RNG generator, its a regulated site, I'd suggest moving elsewhere if you don't enjoy it.

Im not attacking the Rng in the message to support though am I?

Maybe you can quote this? Where you belive I am?

Asking for a statical report on certain outcomes in certain situations on sample sizes is not attacking the RNG. Its exactly what was requested For them to provide me the statical reports. Once received I can verify the probabilities against expect outcomes and variance. Like I said I dont use tracking software and many others dont. They have provided that data before and stopped since Flutter Entertainment brought them out.

So yes I've got every right to question this. Its no different to you running a supposedly legitimate business and all of a sudden your being investigated for cooking the books. The auditor comes in and your accountant cant provide the data on your ongoings and outgoings. Or your PAYE employee questions your on their tax contributions that your responsible for paying the right amount. Turns out that your stealing half their wages because upon them requesting the information and them cross checking with HMRC you were defrauding both parties.

Forums are supposed to be for healthy discussion. Not ridicule. No place for it.

 

[kunnykel]

Id also like to point out that Pokerstars always states that your can request your hand histories to review yourself. However you can only request up to last 100 hands. Last 7 days. Thats another change. Nowhere near enough to get enough data to review and search for unexpected deviance.

 

[Ruinkind]

I understand, but the online gaming licenses aren't handed out by a bunch of hill billies, with zero regulation, hence the term, regulated poker.

I mean maybe you don't trust local government regulations worldwide, they can't even sneak in any kinda secret sauce, or whatever people think to card generation.

 

[moots]

Id also like to point out that Pokerstars always states that your can request your hand histories to review yourself. However you can only request up to last 100 hands. Last 7 days. Thats another change. Nowhere near enough to get enough data to review and search for unexpected deviance.

 

[kunnykel]

Id also like to point out that Pokerstars always states that your can request your hand histories to review yourself. However you can only request up to last 100 hands. Last 7 days. Thats another change. Nowhere near enough to get enough data to review and search for unexpected

View attachment 396900

Is that via the desktop platform?

 

[moots]

Is that via the desktop platform?

Yes

 

[kunnykel]

I understand, but the online gaming licenses aren't handed out by a bunch of hill billies, with zero regulation, hence the term, regulated poker.

I mean maybe you don't trust local government regulations worldwide, they can't even sneak in any kinda secret sauce, or whatever people think to card generation.

Oh I can guarantee you they are. Flutter entertainment been caught up in so many scams, they get fined and continue to uphold their licences. Bet victor, william hill, Videoslots, Sky Vegas, Smartlive, Bet MGM, MrQ.

Shall I carry on? Your naive or dont bother to research and do due diligence. All the above including Pokerstars, Full Tilt, Absolute Poker all broke legislation and defrauded players. Yet apart from Full Tilt and Absolute Poker who could never return due to a massive backlash from their piers in the high stakes Poker community the rest just paid their fines and continue to run business as normal. As for the regulators providing the the licences. Its pure business and the rest is a front. They operate in the same corporate world as the multi million and billion dollar enterprises. Dodging tax, conducting back channel deals to allow operation in jurisdictions and moving their finds through the offshore banks owned and operated by the UK. You really need to do your homework.

The business is conducted in such a way that the regulator gives the punter the illusion that they are there to protect the customer. However they aren't are they?

Billions of customers defrauded. The company pays the regulator a fine which is income going towards the Host nation aswell as. Tax free may I add. A great little money laundering operation right in your face. Well pay you a little lump sum tax free to continue to operate our shady business in your back yard.

Yes

Weird that on tablet and mobile you can only request the last 100 hands?

 

[moots]

Weird that on tablet and mobile you can only request the last 100 hands?

With the desktop App, your hand history is saved to your computer so you can keep it indefinitely.

 

[Ruinkind]

Oh I can guarantee you they are. Flutter entertainment been caught up in so many scams, they get fined and continue to uphold their licences. Bet victor, William Hill, Videoslots, Sky Vegas, Smartlive, Bet MGM, MrQ.

Shall I carry on? Your naive or dont bother to research and do due diligence. All the above including Pokerstars, Full Tilt, Absolute Poker all broke legislation and defrauded players. Yet apart from Full Tilt and Absolute Poker who could never return due to a massive backlash from their piers in the high stakes Poker community the rest just paid their fines and continue to run business as normal. As for the regulators providing the the licences. Its pure business and the rest is a front. They operate in the same corporate world as the multi million and billion dollar enterprises. Dodging tax, conducting back channel deals to allow operation in jurisdictions and moving their finds through the offshore banks owned and operated by the UK. You really need to do your homework.

The business is conducted in such a way that the regulator gives the punter the illusion that they are there to protect the customer. However they aren't are they?

Billions of customers defrauded. The company pays the regulator a fine which is income going towards the Host nation aswell as. Tax free may I add. A great little money laundering operation right in your face. Well pay you a little lump sum tax free to continue to operate our shady business in your back yard.

That is a lot of nothing to do with checks and balances on consumer protections around the world.

You got a agenda and you're gonna push it.

If you came at me and said bots are colluding and ghosting cards to edge a player at xyz site, sure. But guess where that goes on? The unregulated sites who can operate with impunity.

Also, guess what they cannot do on a grand scale, even shady backdoor unregulated sites? Fudge the card RNG, they rely on getting a house edge in other ways.

 

[fundiver199]

I have heard, that PokerStars would send people their hand histories on request, but never that they would perform various statistical analysis on those hand histories. This would likely take a long time to do, and its clearly not their obligation.

 

[MK_]

I would like to congratulate you on being the first person in recorded history who actually provided legible emails😎,

... and out of a desire to be fully informed... combined with serious boredom and a lack of anything else to read I read them all.

I think they were actually pretty polite despite an unusual request that isn't really their job in the first place,

even if they did have a desire to do the math on how many times this or that event happened it wouldn't

tell you a single thing.... variance like poker is a long term game, it's also pretty interesting you're playing

spin go games and are surprised they're high variance... but carry on👍

 

[bablovod]

Hell, I still don't understand the problem.
A lot of text

 

[Sunz of Beaches]

Never once in my OP did i say "riggie" statistics?????? Once the relevance of your message here? Nothing till foil in requesting the company thats supposed to be legit a statistical report on your hand histories. Its considered and normal request.

Your basically saying that if the UKGC or an Auditor requested such reports then they they are tin foil hat conspiracy theorists too!

Like the other replies I see nothing but the standard attempt to shut a thread down with the outcry of "oooh look another player who's lost all his money and is claiming rigged, or scammed or cheated bla bla bla. So boring!!!!

As i already said i highly doubt pokerstars EVER provided such data to their customers. Can u proof they indeed did?

Yeah "riggie" statistics, you are clearly implying something is off to support. Here i marked it for you if you cant remember.You can be happy support even bothered to answer such a strange request, i would probably ignore you or give u a cooldown for a few days under their responsible gambling policy.

But good luck with ur flutter mission/agenda/whatsoever. Mildly entertaining it is 😅 👍

 

[kunnykel]

You can be happy support even bothered to answer such a strange request, i would probably ignore you or give u a cooldown for a few days under their responsible gambling policy.

So like I said as near true to my presumptions. My post are being removed for apparently trolling!!! Haha hilarious because it's not even close to trolling or abusive but as I predicted.

So before im banned ill add this.

You made two slandering comments in a public forum about me.

First one Implying I have accused pokerstars of rigging. Which is not true!

Second one suggesting I have a gambling addiction as I have highlighted in the above quote. You have no evidence of this and thats detrimental and damaging to even suggest that. Then to suggest taking a cool off period is also slandering In the same context and notion.

But hey given this being so serious I bet 100%
Your posts will not be removed or your account penalised. Or even an apology offered to me.

 

[Sunz of Beaches]

So like I said as near true to my presumptions. My post are being removed for apparently trolling!!! Haha hilarious because it's not even close to trolling or abusive but as I predicted.

So before im banned ill add this.

You made two slandering comments in a public forum about me.

First one Implying I have accused pokerstars of rigging. Which is not true!

Second one suggesting I have a gambling addiction as I have highlighted in the above quote. You have no evidence of this and thats detrimental and damaging to even suggest that. Then to suggest taking a cool off period is also slandering In the same context and notion.

But hey given this being so serious I bet 100%
Your posts will not be removed or your account penalised. Or even an apology offered to me.

You definitely accused them of rigging in an indirect way with your requests of unusual situations and u clearly say "something feels off" to them which sounds like just another mild accusation. So yes its true.

And yes people who do such strange things like contacting support for patterns etc definitely are in the category of problem gambler(s). Saw more than enough of this over the years and its always the same.

There is no reason to remove my posts as im just telling you how it is, like it or not. U came here with your agenda and it should be obvious that u can expect some backlash if you post such things on a poker forum as many here like to play on stars and trust the site.

And besides all of that you are making things up because Stars never ever issued such Data to their Clients. There is no reason why any serious pokersite should do that 🙂👍

 

[Tammy]

So like I said as near true to my presumptions. My post are being removed for apparently trolling!!! Haha hilarious because it's not even close to trolling or abusive but as I predicted.

So before im banned ill add this.

You made two slandering comments in a public forum about me.

First one Implying I have accused pokerstars of rigging. Which is not true!

Second one suggesting I have a gambling addiction as I have highlighted in the above quote. You have no evidence of this and thats detrimental and damaging to even suggest that. Then to suggest taking a cool off period is also slandering In the same context and notion.

But hey given this being so serious I bet 100%
Your posts will not be removed or your account penalised. Or even an apology offered to me.

There is no slander here in what he said. It's clearly implied in your messages that you are questioning the validity of the outcomes, which, by its very nature is saying you think it may be rigged.

I've never heard of any poker site ever keeping or providing the info you are seeking. The rep's reply seems above board here; I can't imagine they would spend time and resources tracking specific types of scenarios - that would require a tremendous amount of man-hours to compile such a report. But you said though you have proof of this, because it's been provided to you before. Can you post that here? Would love to see that.

 

[kunnykel]

You can be happy support even bothered to answer such a strange request, i would probably ignore you or give u a cooldown for a few days under their responsible gambling policy.

So like I said as near true to my presumptions. My post are being removed for apparently trolling!!! Haha hilarious because it's not even close to trolling or abusive but as I predicted.

So before im banned ill add this.

You made two slandering comments in a public forum about me.

First one Implying I have accused pokerstars of rigging. Which is not true!

Second one suggesting I have a gambling addiction as I have highlighted in the above quote. You have no evidence of this and thats detrimental and damaging to even suggest that. Then to suggest taking a cool off period is also slandering In the same context and notion.

But hey given this being so serious I bet 100%
Your posts will not be removed or your account penalised. Or even an apology offered

There is no slander here in what he said. It's clearly implied in your messages that you are questioning the validity of the outcomes, which, by its very nature is saying you think it may be rigged.

I've never heard of any poker site ever keeping or providing the info you are seeking. The rep's reply seems above board here; I can't imagine they would spend time and resources tracking specific types of scenarios - that would require a tremendous amount of man-hours to compile such a report. But you said though you have proof of this, because it's been provided to you before. Can you post that here? Would love to see that.

Sorry but as an administrator I 100% expect you to say there is no slander but his comments 100% pure slanderous. He has no evidence that I should or need to take time out through the responsible gambling means offered. Or Pokerstars should even take that action. He has no access to my account or my deposit history, income and expenditure. My source of funds or anything other close to those means. So YES it's slander!

Same as suggesting Im claiming its rigged when thats not what I said. AGAIN slander.

Now my request is not unreasonable. Its a trend I've picked up on through my gaming experience recently and Im simply curious as to the statistics they can provide me to review the data for myself. If I has HEM like I did up until 2016 I would and it would take no less than 20 mins. If you read my other posts here you would recognise I took a break from Pokerstars after my account was hacked playing at high stakes cash games. At a time other pros where hacked too. So no im not just another cry baby like is being insinuated here by others.

There is no agenda here. Just something feels off with me in these specific scenarios. Many other players with tracking software with similar concerns would run the same simulations to appease their curiosity. Thats one of the benefits and reasons for having such software.

I've just chosen to to heavily invest in Pokerstars since I was hacked and the way they dealt with it back than left me concerned about my own protection as a high volume reg and winning player. So I left the site alone up until 2021/22. Ive been playing casually getting a feel for the site for the last 3 years and getting a feel for the games. Bounty builders are where im running profitable best but like I said. Something seems off in the volume of losses against short stacks for bounties. Although variance is high I feel Im losing way too many times against them. When entering the pot pteflop 80/20 down to 60/40 ahead. Way too many scenarios where the 2 and 5% hits the river. This as you can hazard a guess significantly can hamper your profits.

I this year haven't been playing on desktop anymore so yes im very limited to tracking software and as mentioned in the thread I can only request my last 100 hand histories. Which is a big enough sample size.

Now if I was able to get Pokerstars to produce me significantly larger sample size. Maybe someone here would like to run my results through HEM or another software that can verify a higher than normal expected outcome in my requests or confirm everything's within the norm?

Pokerstars clearly won't so until then my curiousty remains that somethings off. Until proven otherwise.

Point to note about my time out since 2016. Pokerstars have been brought out multiple times. Each with their own way of running the business. All the top pros have left including this year some very big streamers. The business model is forever changing.

For a player looking to invest heavily again in Poker. I like anyone would like transparency and trust. I would like to know money is safe on their or any other site.

So far the experience is very negative customer service wise. Im still searching for the data they provided me before. I use hotmail and refused to pay for the extra storage they are now ripping people off with. So lost a hell of a lot of emails. I also have a life and family life. Therefore will not rush or prioritise it. But will definitely try to locate and dig it out.

One other final note. If we cannot live in an online world where your not allowed to ask questions or have queries. Then how safe are you really? There is way too much ridicule online. Especially in forums, chat rooms and public media.

I have every right to ask those questions to Pokerstars and they have every to refuse. Which they did. Which leaves me even more distrusting towards them. Its not as hard, time consuming or labour demanding to produce those reports like you seem to suggest. It just a filter that needs applying in the database of my hand and tournament histories and trust me. They have that ability. They use it to track and review the hand histories, betting patterns etc of potential bots and colluders.
And finally for those that don't know. Back in 2010 pokerstars blocked accounts that used bots and banned RTA programs easily because once you install the Pokerstars client a security spyware program is installed to comb through your computer to search for the installation files of such programs. We are now in 2025 and tech and AI are way more advanced. They know if your running on desktop or mobile. They can detect if your running a VPN. Your profiled as a player. There is so much at their disposal. My point here is they already know Im not using tracking software.

As customer support first response in conversation. She had to reach out to the relevant department to give me a time frame. Then returned and went against it. Continuously posting the cut and paste response about the Shuffles integrity. Nothing at all in line with my request. So yes 100% im still curious, concerned and distrusting.

 

[fundiver199]

And yes people who do such strange things like contacting support for patterns etc definitely are in the category of problem gambler(s). Saw more than enough of this over the years and its always the same.

I strongly agree with this. Telling support, that "some definitely seems off", is basically the same as saying, that you are bothered by your gambling losses. So it is in fact a little surpricing and potentially even a mistake, that OP was not put on a mandatory cool-down period as part of their responsible gambling policy.

 

[kunnykel]

I strongly agree with this. Telling support, that "some definitely seems off", is basically the same as saying, that you are bothered by your gambling losses. So it is in fact a little surpricing and potentially even a mistake, that OP was not put on a mandatory cool-down period as part of their responsible gambling policy.

So what your saying is. If you question the validity in any form of online gambling. Then we should automatically assume someone is a problem gambler or even potentially bothered about maybe being defrauded and you should just accept it?
Sorry but that is absolutely ludicrous to even think that?
Its a multi trillion dollar industry where the host makes money and there is the ability for the client to make money too. But to suggest your not allowed to question anything is absurd! And if this is your mindset then more fool you. With a mindset like that your prone to he rolled over in life.