Poker software = cheating?

[StateDeParis]

My anser is no.

 

[pipayura]

Im not using any software to show player stats, and i think its somwhat cheating.

I have a job and i simply don't have enough time to sit there and investigate that data for half of day, and use all those tools and trackers, you know, cause i have a job.
So basically people who decided to not have job and have ton of free time to use some tools and stuff, and they are rewarded for that by having all the stats in their hands.
And thats very unfair at my opinion.
And now, even if i had some free time, i would still not use those tools. Its like killing the game and i just dont see no fun in this. Poker must be fun. Everything must be fun.

Certainly not fair. I am also against it. I believe that everyone at the table should have an equal chance. No one should have an advantage. This is tantamount to spying on an opponent.

 

[KRANKES]

If its allowed and others are using it against you you're cheating your self if you don't use it your self.

Well said! and it's not that time wasting, you can download HUD settings and that's it...
or put just the most basic stats, at least you can decide between LAG and TAG plAYERS

 

[sturbs87]

cheating

I was watching a show on how there are bots cheating. Said they were 80% effective.

 

[fletchdad]

I consider it cheating for sure. Thas why I dont like playing online. Live the player has to play you straight up. I loved it when I was in Carribean championship and was against one of the precious online champs of the year before. Beat the pants off him!. It should be player skill vs player skill. Not who has the best program !!!!!!

Reading someone live and interpreting those reads correctly is a skill. Reading stats and interpreting those stats correctly is a skill.

If you generally only play one table online and use a tracker, you are simply lazy. If you play 24 tables (as I used to) and intend to make a profit, well...??

Your (and others) arguments that it is cheating are sour grapes. It is NOT!!!!!! cheating. You dont like that someone else took the time money and effort to learn the software and they have an edge on you. If you were doing your job you would have notes on all important hands and players. If you are whining that live is better, play one table. Voila!! No difference now. If you know what it takes to win, you can do the same thing as your opponent when you are only playing one table.

The point is this: The software is allowed. So using it is not cheating. That is simply a fact. So if you dont like the stop sign in your neighborhood, you can run it and tell the cops that it is unfair and cheating you out of time to make you stop. The stop sign is a fact, and just cause you ignore its usage does not make the fact of what it really is any different.

Your comment about "who has the best program" is kinda lame as well. There are 2 major trackers that I am aware of. They are complicated to use if you have never used one before. You must also learn to interpret the stats. I use photoshop. Imagine someone uses Microsoft Paint (a wimp of a program compared to photoshop) but knows how to use it. Someone else has photoshop but does not know how to use it. The one with the better program will NOT do better photo editing. Do you see that?

You seem to take it (tracking software) as a personal insult, or it looks that way in your words. Why is that? Would you go HU with Nanonoko? He is a "precious online champ" to use your words. But he would play you live HU in a heartbeat. I am just not sure why you are so passionate about trashing people who use something that is allowed but you dont like.

 

[P0kka]

Own choice

I'm not against huds, and it's okay for me some other players use them, while I'm mainly not using them.

I've tried, but haven't enough time besides my daytime work to get the most out of them.


However there's no cheating, in my opinion, it's just the choice of a player if it's allowed by the site.

 

[jeffman123]

Stats don't just magically make you play better. In fact it's a pretty minor consideration for most good players and they're almost always used preflop. Some sites allow HUDS, some sites don't. If you play on one that does, it's part of the game. It's like complaining about rubber bats in ping pong if you like the hard ones.

 

[wrzlbrnft]

All the datas are provided from the pokerplatform, so why not use them ?, this is no cheating. You can ignore them, you can make your own list and notes from these datas or use a software which does it.
I play for fun, mostly in microstacks or freerolls, but I installed PT4. in Tourneys the HUD personally confuses me often more than it helps, even when there is only a few datas of villains. But to analyse my games, finding leaks and for statistics, it is a fantastic tool and helps a lot to improve the skills.

 

[thedarkman]

Just playing more and reading books won't make you a better player. Using tracking software to filter your database to fix leaks and see how you've applied what you've read will.

No software will save you from the player who calls a pot sized raise with pocket 4s, calls the AK9 flop, calls the AK98 turn, then sucks out with a set against AK. And don't get me started on Omaha.

 

[5pAce_C0wb0y]

No software will save you from the player who calls a pot sized raise with pocket 4s, calls the AK9 flop, calls the AK98 turn, then sucks out with a set against AK. And don't get me started on Omaha.

Well that's poker and those guys are your customers. The situation you describe is a +EV situation as they only hit there set 4% of the time on the river the other 96% of the time your printing money.

 

[canabero]

if you would use it, then you would understand that really is not cheating. actually i don't use any software but i did it in the past.

 

[Luvepoker]

Tracking software is not cheating. I do prefer not using the HUD but I use the software to track my play. I use this to review the hands i play to improve myself. Also the HUD can cause you issues if you dont know what your doing. While it does quickly give you information it takes a lot of hands to get a honest assessment of a player and players change over time.

 

[AKQ]

I was tracking preflop% cbet %s and sizing before HUDS was even a thought!!

Pen and paper

 

[steve01991]

to avoid this , play live games not online. cant bring a computer to a live game, lol

 

[fletchdad]

I was tracking preflop% cbet %s and sizing before HUDS was even a thought!!

Pen and paper

This is what I was alluding to in my earlier post to another member. If you play only 1 or 2 tables online then there is no reason you cannot keep track of people and their tendencies and betting patterns etc.

I no longer use a HUD. I also play 3 tables maximum. I used to play up to 24 tables. That is a stress I no longer feel the need to put myself through, but I now only play for fun... (Well, not ONLY....

 

[BasTid]

I think it should be integrated in the client as option, for everyone and for free. Otherwise it's a reg's favor. Not everyone who want to play poker, fairly ofcourse, want to be bother with some god knows software and its customization.
Recently I heard that some guy spend $10k on some super special сustom hood. Why the hell I'm supposed to compete with that!?

Your right, also we should only allow players the same amount of hands per week as each other because as you know the more hands you have under your belt, the more experienced you become. That's not fair either.

Also while were at it, you can't use certain websites which are not available here in my country because that also give you an advantage over me.

Also if you are a better player then me, your not allowed play at the same table as me. Clearly unfair!

As for the dude paying 10k for a custom HUD. You think he'll be bustin that out at 5NL? or maybe a $1 sng? Naaa if he's paying 10k you can assume his BR is somewhat big enough to afford a purchase of that scale. When yours is that big then you too can buy it!

If you honestly can't afford 75dollars to buy a HUD and the 25 a year sub, should you really be playing poker? Like at 2NL that is 37BI, at 5NL is 15BI, at 100NL it's less than 1.
I hope you get my point.

Can you beat 2NL or 5NL without a HUD? Yes 100% you can.
Can you afford a HUD if you are playing 10NL properly rolled? Yes 100% you can.

 

[BasTid]

This post has gone completely off the topic and turned into trolling and bait. I would like to know where are the same moderators who deleted a post of mine with serious complaints about the breach of the terms of promotion made by party poker and do not delete this topic that was completely off topic and became the reason for personal attacks and lack of education? ???????

So let me get this straight, in order to complain that you and your topic went off topic and got closed. You decided to go on another thread and take that off topic?

I can see why yours was closed.

 

[malibuflo1]

It's hard to say scam, but it's a different poker on the internet than live

 

[ringworm]

I user pokertracker and it was super quick to setup while I was playing a tournament online.

I only display total hands, voluntary money put in the pot, aggression factor, preflop raise and check raise.

Knowing how often a player voluntarily puts money in the pot alone is incredibly helpful for putting my opponents on a hand. If my opponent is only in 10% of the pots, I know he is only in there with a premium hand.

If my opponent raises and they are playing 30% of the pots, I know I have to have a hand in the top 15% of hands in order to call or raise and know my hand is likely the best.

 

[abgvedr]

Reading someone live and interpreting those reads correctly is a skill. Reading stats and interpreting those stats correctly is a skill.

Those things are as different as it gets. In first case player digs into a game deeper and deeper to understand its core and when and where to make the correct move. Player understands what hes doing. In the second case its like monkey see monkey do. WIthout those stats that player would be a completely different player.

If you generally only play one table online and use a tracker, you are simply lazy. If you play 24 tables (as I used to) and intend to make a profit, well...??

So let me get this straight. Playing single table is not efficient, so you open more and more tables. You open so many tables that playing as many tables becomes inefficient. And then you .. You try to use HUD to cover that inefficiency? That does not look like a very efficient way to you know play poker. Also as for me i really play much more efficiently if i give at least some attention to a table to feel its dynamics.

Your (and others) arguments that it is cheating are sour grapes.

Sir i have never deposited in poker but i made living from it for 2 years of my life. 2 days ago i had zero, i won few bucks from freerolls and now i already have 190 bucks. I have absolutely zero anger over anything i did not achieve in poker. Quite franckly i think players that use hud are kind of sad. That they cannot do this stuff themselves. That they cannot see who plays what game. I am not personally concerned with that problem with HUD, i am concerned for a game itself, and how it makes game more stupid and bad and less fun. I am a big man. I am so big of a man that i am changing the world around me for beter. Or at least trying to.

It is NOT!!!!!! cheating. You dont like that someone else took the time money and effort to learn the software and they have an edge on you. If you were doing your job you would have notes on all important hands and players. If you are whining that live is better, play one table. Voila!! No difference now. If you know what it takes to win, you can do the same thing as your opponent when you are only playing one table.

First of all nobody have any edge on me sir. The fact that someone needs some HUD vs me just make me wana hug that player okay. Before taking his mony.

The point is this: The software is allowed. So using it is not cheating. That is simply a fact. So if you dont like the stop sign in your neighborhood, you can run it and tell the cops that it is unfair and cheating you out of time to make you stop. The stop sign is a fact, and just cause you ignore its usage does not make the fact of what it really is any different.

Again, my problem is on a much higher level.

Your comment about "who has the best program" is kinda lame as well. There are 2 major trackers that I am aware of. They are complicated to use if you have never used one before. You must also learn to interpret the stats. I use photoshop. Imagine someone uses Microsoft Paint (a wimp of a program compared to photoshop) but knows how to use it. Someone else has photoshop but does not know how to use it. The one with the better program will NOT do better photo editing. Do you see that?

It was not my comment.

You seem to take it (tracking software) as a personal insult, or it looks that way in your words. Why is that? Would you go HU with Nanonoko? He is a "precious online champ" to use your words. But he would play you live HU in a heartbeat. I am just not sure why you are so passionate about trashing people who use something that is allowed but you dont like.

I take it as a personal insult cause im so big of a man that i personally care for everything around me and try to change everything for beter.

 

[abgvedr]

Im sorry man but you are just clueless of what im even saying here.
I am not saying it is unfair to me if you use HUD on me. I said that its not fair for the entire game to even have any HUD thing whatsoever. SO its kind of the same thing, but on a higher level. I am not concerned personally here, i am concerned for the entire game.

Having HUD have nothing to do with studying or experience. HUD does not teach you anything. Ofcourse there are people saying 'Oh i have learned so much with HUD' but thing is if you learned it - does not mean it was HUDs intention to teach you that stuff. YOu could and you should be able to learn the stuff.

HUD just breaks the game for some extend.

Your right, also we should only allow players the same amount of hands per week as each other because as you know the more hands you have under your belt, the more experienced you become. That's not fair either.

Also while were at it, you can't use certain websites which are not available here in my country because that also give you an advantage over me.

Also if you are a better player then me, your not allowed play at the same table as me. Clearly unfair!

As for the dude paying 10k for a custom HUD. You think he'll be bustin that out at 5NL? or maybe a $1 sng? Naaa if he's paying 10k you can assume his BR is somewhat big enough to afford a purchase of that scale. When yours is that big then you too can buy it!

If you honestly can't afford 75dollars to buy a HUD and the 25 a year sub, should you really be playing poker? Like at 2NL that is 37BI, at 5NL is 15BI, at 100NL it's less than 1.
I hope you get my point.

Can you beat 2NL or 5NL without a HUD? Yes 100% you can.
Can you afford a HUD if you are playing 10NL properly rolled? Yes 100% you can.

 

[B1BOMBER]

I don't pay attention to other players stats for there are several factors that can inflate their stats. If they are in a freeroll and everybody at their table the stats can go up quick when they win every hand. But if you are going to cheat at least cheat fair!!!

 

[abgvedr]

Before taking his mony.

That was a joke btw. Im not good at poker. Im just totally fine with my game as it is. Its just a game thats it. I have an awesome job that i love im a software developer and al i realy want is to have some fun.

 

[fletchdad]

Those things are as different as it gets. In first case player digs into a game deeper and deeper to understand its core and when and where to make the correct move. Player understands what hes doing. In the second case its like monkey see monkey do. WIthout those stats that player would be a completely different player.



So let me get this straight. Playing single table is not efficient, so you open more and more tables. You open so many tables that playing as many tables becomes inefficient. And then you .. You try to use HUD to cover that inefficiency? That does not look like a very efficient way to you know play poker. Also as for me i really play much more efficiently if i give at least some attention to a table to feel its dynamics.



Sir i have never deposited in poker but i made living from it for 2 years of my life. 2 days ago i had zero, i won few bucks from freerolls and now i already have 190 bucks. I have absolutely zero anger over anything i did not achieve in poker. Quite franckly i think players that use hud are kind of sad. That they cannot do this stuff themselves. That they cannot see who plays what game. I am not personally concerned with that problem with HUD, i am concerned for a game itself, and how it makes game more stupid and bad and less fun. I am a big man. I am so big of a man that i am changing the world around me for beter. Or at least trying to.



First of all nobody have any edge on me sir. The fact that someone needs some HUD vs me just make me wana hug that player okay. Before taking his mony.



Again, my problem is on a much higher level.



It was not my comment.



I take it as a personal insult cause im so big of a man that i personally care for everything around me and try to change everything for beter.

You have taken it very personally that people use, and like, this allowed software. You have taken it so personally that, in your post above, there are some somewhat hidden and some very obvious insulting comments towards me and others. I do not understand this. I would have enjoyed explaining why I think what I think, but to be then talked to like I am less than you makes me no longer interested in investing time in this discussion. It also says a lot about who you are, but that is not my problem. But, when your words are there, well, I can't really help but see them.

Your first paragraph shows me that you have one way of seeing things, and when I try to present an alternate way of seeing this, you refuse to even think of trying to see things from my point of view. (You do not have to agree with someone to try to see it their way to better understand their thoughts) It also shows me that you have zero understanding of what is involved in using the information you get from the software. I mean, really zero understanding of how it is used. I would explain in more detail, but.....

But it is your attitude more than anything that convinces me that an open-minded discussion just ain't gonna happen with you. You are, in your mind, simply right and that is the end of the story. I encounter this much too often (usually not in the poker software world, but hey...) and if someone shows they believe to already know it all, that's fine with me. I personally prefer a path of humility and curiosity, among others, but each must walk the path of their own choosing.

OK. That's your path, and that's fine. Enjoy your life and stay healthy.

I would, however, like to know how you made your living from Poker for 2 years. If you would be so kind, what stakes were you playing, was it live or online, and how many hours a month were you actively playing, and how many hours a month were you actively reviewing your play in any form at all, and how did you perform this review? All questions a pro can answer fairly easily. Thank you.

 

[mina271]

It's a shock to me how this conversation turned out and I think some people take it too personally. There was one person who asked if poker software tools like hud were scams. And it is already going so far that one does insult each other something shouldn't be, let's concentrate on the question. I don't know myself with hud or similar programs, I tried it for a short time, but personally I can't deal with it, I'm probably too stupid for it. But no matter if you use hud or not at the end if you want to improve your game you have to do something and hud helps you with it, but I don't think that it takes away the decision of how to play in the end you have to decide for yourself whether to raise a hand or fold. To know how you should play against certain people, it is definitely good to know how they play and I think hud is a good tool because you can save statistics from other players but if you are very diligent and take the time from everyone players you meet at the tables to take notes, you probably have the same advantage in this case, although you have a little more with the hud because calculations are also included there. I don't think working with hud is a scam. It is a tool that helps you to improve your game and how important it is for each individual to improve your game is up to you. If you just play for fun and have no interest in learning about poker, you definitely don't need something like that. But for those who take poker a little more seriously, hud could mean something to them. But there is no reason to assume that people who play without hud are necessarily at a disadvantage. It's all about what you do with your game. People who play with hud can also be beaten.