Calling a short stacks allin with AK, final table MTT

[bkniefel]

you never "have" to do anything..

your call was spot on too.. i dont know many people that would muck ak all in preflop, final table.. just isnt smart.. '

the reasoning for this is my question: what would you call all in with?

thats the second best hand in poker.. if he has qq its 50/50 so i dont see why you wouldnt call in that situation.

 

[TheKAAHK]

fyp

Not so much. With a short stack its a snap/fistpump. With one of the bigger stacks it requires a little more thought. Why flip for stacks at this point against another biggie when I can chew on the small fry? Against a bigger stack I'd rather play a pot in position than flip and risk the tourney. Unless he's a spwetard. But that's a whole 'nother subject right there and involves far more dynamics than just my hole cards.

 

[rdm4k]

was ironic fyp

 

[TheKAAHK]

was ironic fyp

Ah.

But I see where your fix could be relevant given the mood one is in at that final table Sometimes one just wants to gambooool and swing the big stick

 

[RNG]

You can fold here but you're only in trouble against AA or KK. If you dont think he'd shove with AQ, I think its ok to play your style.

 

[rrph3rtbkr]

i could have called there if i had AKs otherwise its a fold

 

[stefffan1]

I would have called. Only AA or KK had a big shot against you.

 

[pjokay]

Hmmm, I would be inclined to call too. Saying that I called a shove from the SB well into the money in massive tournament with KK, SB has 47 and makes a straight and knocks me out. Although that would always be a snap call. But to say you are only in trouble against AA, KK is a tricky argument, as essentially any pair is just slightly ahead. UTG shoves are more tricky but if you have him dominated that is great. I would find it hard difficult to fold if he has a third of my stack. The problem is if you have a lot of small stacks soon to go out whether or not you wait but you need to make these gambles if not then then soon!

 

[Propane Goat]

I would call here too even though AK and me don't get along very well. Even if you lose you still have a workable stack. If you win, you have a better shot at first place money. In this situation you're heads up with the villain, if he shoves that many chips and there's a call and/or re-raise before it gets to me I'm folding AKo without a second thought.

 

[sillymunchie]

why is everybody saying AK is 2nd / 3rd best hand
the reason why i say we should fold, is everyone is focusing on the fact its a short stacker
a short stacker with 20BB, i think people arent realising that he has 20BB, thats a huge chunk to put at risk, you go down to 30BB and opponent jumps to 40bb, its an uneccisary risk, especially since he is at 20BB, if you fold now, you can probably take his blinds a few times and get the chips risk free, if hes sitting tight then he wont be hitting that many hands

Poker is a game of grinding, and you should never be looking to avoid the grind by getting involved in huge pots, especially when you dont have the odds

also, nobody asked the obvious question.... how often do blinds go up, and how long left till this blind went up...... if the blinds are about to go up and you lose this hand, your no longer looking at 30BB, but your looking at 15BB, and on top of that your entering shove/fold mode yourself.

Not saying calling is ever a bad thing to do, but its definately a unnessicary risk

 

[Dee Dee]

I think kingmunchers you sum up my thinking when I originally posted the question: I could have found better opportunities to get chips with less risk, my stack was big enough to exert pressure and steal, the call denies me a lot of free chips because I cannot exert the same pressure with a smaller stack, especially since I could be making the player to my immediate left into a bigger stack than myself, also there was another player I had history with at the table who had a big problem with me and who was due another big spazz out against me, maybe I should have included the table dynamics in my op, my op was making the point that I do not think this is always a totally clear situation, I must admit I'm still unsure that this is a fist pump call scenario, more like a, go on then, f**k it, situation.

 

[pjokay]

How did the hand turn out in the end? It is funny to say the third best hand as any pair is just ever so slightly ahead. I am assuming it was normal speed tournament otherwise it would be a must call. If you fold as well sometimes you may not have a hand for ages and have to go with something worse. But then when I have gone allin with kings I have lost to ace x on many occasion. The good thing about your situation in this spot is there is no one else to act and you know you are only against one player who is much smaller stacked. If you were in early or middle position you do not know how many are going to call but you know your in a heads up situation which is good.


I would prefer his shove with 15 blinds or less as I think he would have to shove hands like AQ from this spot as he losing the ability to raise with hands. From 1st position it is a lot to shove without a pair and I would be surprised if it was below AJ if not a pair. I cant remember how many people you said where on the final table. The less people the more you should ideally call. Also the M value is more important than the blinds here.

 

[duson]

I've started noticing that when I make the money or FT's I usually have a top 5 stack but then it starts dwindling because I'm playing hands I shouldn't and I'm calling all'ins I should let go. If you know the players been tight and waiting for a premium I'd consider walking away from it is what I've started to do. I'd rather let him risk not getting another premium and getting bounced than a third of my stack.

 

[pjokay]

I think on a final table if another player had called after his shove this would be too costly as you are still in good shape when you not getting to play a flop as we are often looking at coin flips and anymore in the hand could well mean they have some of your outs. Nightmare when someone else has AK and you still have to beat a pair. I tend to prefer seeing a flop but allins at that amount are more difficult from that spot.

 

[pjokay]

Just sat at a table where three players all shoved AK in the same hand, wired! 2 out between the three of them against an opponent.

 

[radartodd69]

As a pit boss once said to me concerning playing AK. It's time to pick up your skirt and play some poker. If you can't play AK, what can you play?

 

[Poker_Mike]

I was playing an MTT last night and I made the FT second in chips. With seven players left I had just under 1 million (blinds: 10000/20000/ante 2500) and the short stack had 380K and he pushes from UTG, it folds round to me in the BB and I have AKo - because villain has shown down strong holdings previously, I'm thinking he is shoving a decent ace or pocket pairs, so I see it as a pretty standard call. But, reflecting on it I started having doubts as to whether I should be calling for a third of my stack in this situation, with 2 other big stacks at the table and the rest of the table not much better off than the short stack, would it have been reasonable to fold here considering the pay jumps and the chances that the shorter stacks will bust before me if I just wait? Do I really have to call here?

No. You don't have to - mainly because you said the player has been showing down strong hands.

380K is 19BB and not really short stacked, although he's getting there. He is shoving with a pair of something. You are behind...why flip for this many chips?

Plus because he is a player that seems to know what he is doing....he is even more dangerous when he is doubled-up.

Losing the hand means going from 3rd to 5th or 6th.

If he didn't shove preflop then you should open raise.

I hope I remember this advice when I'm in your position at a FT.

Good luck !

 

[puzzlefish]

Mike said it pretty well above. It comes down to why you need to flip with this player. I occasionally do flips with AK. The worst that happened was a player doubling up on me and then proceeding to win the next 10 or so flips heads up to win. Why start a vicious cycle by flipping without so much as a pair?

 

[pancho_1954]

already at the final table is more when you have to be careful, especially with the short stack, how many times we have not seen a short stack playing desperately and get positioned again with the chips, probably my instinct would have told me to pay, but I think I would analyze the situation more

 

[playinggameswithu]

If you want to go DEEP DEEP fold that ace high. Any hand has 38% equity against you and a lowly pair of deuces has 57% equity. That ace high AKo is most overplayed hand in the bizness EZ FOLD.

 

[Gr34tWh1t3]

I hope you won the pot and at least made a top 3 in that tourney ,
anyway I would have called there given your stack size ,and blinds ,other guys stack and ofc if you wanna win you have to call there . I think the blinds 30 BB its still great in case it turns out you lose.

 

[graplet]

I have played in MANY tournaments and it's my opinion that you should fold. You are in NO way obligated to throw your chips into the pot. Sometimes one may feel like they HAVE to make that call since they are getting good odds on their money and have a chance to take out an opponent as well, but THIS IS POKER my friends. And we all know that sometimes even crap hands hit. In a tournament, your chips are your life. You have to pick your spots, and folding that hand and waiting for another spot may be the boost you need to take the tourney down...

Very sound advice!!!!

 

[graplet]

I think I play AK and AQ too often. But I know I am not alone, and every time I go big and someone stays with them, I feel like I am in trouble. More online than live for sure.

 

[graplet]

Mike said it pretty well above. It comes down to why you need to flip with this player. I occasionally do flips with AK. The worst that happened was a player doubling up on me and then proceeding to win the next 10 or so flips heads up to win. Why start a vicious cycle by flipping without so much as a pair?

I have felt this pain as well, leaves a scar!!!!

 

[Poker Orifice]

If you want to go DEEP DEEP fold that ace high. Any hand has 38% equity against you and a lowly pair of deuces has 57% equity. That ace high AKo is most overplayed hand in the bizness EZ FOLD.

Spoken like a donk.