Check/raise from pre flop raiser

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IPlay

IPlay

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What do you think of this move? It really confuses me when the PFR checks to me, I bet and he raises? It especially confuses me on wet flops where I could check back a lot so why risk that with a hand that is big enough to check raise? I generally assume it's a fish with the nuts and fold and move on but the play just doesn't make sense so a part of me always wants to call. This move is pretty rare though and I never have a hand strong enough to call with.

Any good players ever play a hand like this? I assume it falls under the same category as a donk bet whereas it is very rarely the right play.
 
Maybe he was trying to check the strength of your hand. If he thinks your bet is small, he might be trying to see how strong your hand really is.

He could be also bluffing. Especially if his stack is larger than yours, in which case, he might be "pot bullying" to take your chips.
 
Probably depends on the stakes as to what it means. In low stakes its probably almost always a strong hand with fps. But I could see it being a bluff at higher stakes?
 
bonestattoo said:
Maybe he was trying to check the strength of your hand. If he thinks your bet is small, he might be trying to see how strong your hand really is.
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I can see this happening but If he wants to see how strong his hand is why not Cbet?

This is probably hardly discussion worthy but meh, never hurts.
 
Could he have raised with AQs and has a flush draw on the flop ?
 
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Yes, I would do this with a monster vs an aggro, or say I hit a set on a draw heavy board. But I don't think I'd do it more than about 20% of the time.
 
Generally I just reserve this play for the very floaty villains that don't like to fold, but have a high bet vs miss cbet. It is hard to know what it means unless you have some read on your opponent, if a villain is doing it all the time certainly going to be way less credible than someone doing it 5-10%.
 
IPlay said:
What do you think of this move? It really confuses me when the PFR checks to me, I bet and he raises? It especially confuses me on wet flops where I could check back a lot so why risk that with a hand that is big enough to check raise? I generally assume it's a fish with the nuts and fold and move on but the play just doesn't make sense so a part of me always wants to call. This move is pretty rare though and I never have a hand strong enough to call with.

Any good players ever play a hand like this? I assume it falls under the same category as a donk bet whereas it is very rarely the right play.
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I don't do it, but I have seen people do it plenty of times. They usually do it with TPTK minimum, but more with sets, 2p, etc. It is usually inexperienced players doing this. They are trying to trap, and are hoping you will bet.

I think they may be at least somewhat aware of table dynamics/villain tendencies, and they usually make this move vs aggro players or dumb asses (not saying you are dumb ass).

FPS.

I have also seen people do this, and it does check through. Then they get their cap peeled when someone hits their gutter and they flopped top set.
 
I agree. FPS with the nuts. Especially at the stakes I play.

I LOL-fold when they do that (unless I have odds to draw to the nuts).

The weirdest thing is when they do that and just min-raise, and then repeat that same line on the turn.
 
MediaBLITZ said:
Yes, I would do this with a monster vs an aggro, or say I hit a set on a draw heavy board. But I don't think I'd do it more than about 20% of the time.
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Same here, if I think I'm playing an aggro who is in position I'll often give him a chance to bet if I have a monster, however I'll then usually call (after a dramatic pause of course) to encourage him to bet again.

If I think he's quite station-y or also has a hand but that's not as a good I may check-raise to either build the pot or try and end it now to stop him improving (e.g. to a FH if I think he's hit a set and if I've the nut flush).
 
When the PFR check-raises, it's generally 2 pairs or better. If the SPR is small then it's sometimes just top pair (like in a 3bet pot for example), but in a high SPR pot (less money went in preflop), it's usually a monster hand. It's not usually a semi-bluff and it's almost never an airball.
 
Yeah, generally a fish with the nuts, or rather what they think is the nuts.
 
most likely he was bluffing. when someone applies is always dangerous and I try to exit the game.
 
Since I play on an anonymous site and the general consensus is this is a strong move maybe I should try this when I flop huge draws(Like pair+flush draw, gut shot+FD)

Its the only time I can see it making sense since I don't care if it checks through but then again. Maybe just a standard cbet will be better.
Hmmm
 
IPlay said:
Since I play on an anonymous site and the general consensus is this is a strong move maybe I should try this when I flop huge draws(Like pair+flush draw, gut shot+FD)

Its the only time I can see it making sense since I don't care if it checks through but then again. Maybe just a standard cbet will be better.
Hmmm
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I don't think you should try this move at all. Its just a terrible play. And depending on the limit, your opponents don't realize its a move that shows strength.
 
mbrenneman0 said:
I don't think you should try this move at all. Its just a terrible play. And depending on the limit, your opponents don't realize its a move that shows strength.
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So in that case its a terrible move with marginal holdings against calling stations, but possibly a good play with strong made hands against calling stations.

Something that is a terrible play in one situation, could be an optimal line in another situation.
 
starting_at_the_bottom said:
So in that case its a terrible move with marginal holdings against calling stations, but possibly a good play with strong made hands against calling stations.

Something that is a terrible play in one situation, could be an optimal line in another situation.
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Possibly. Maybe depends if its an aggressive calling station. Although I feel like aggressive stations are a rare breed. I'm thinking, if they're aggressive enough to bet behind a check they're probably not passive enough to call a raise.
 
mbrenneman0 said:
Probably depends on the stakes as to what it means. In low stakes its probably almost always a strong hand with fps. But I could see it being a bluff at higher stakes?
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Agree here. I see this all the time at micros online and 1/2 live games. ALL. THE. TIME.
 
IPlay said:
What do you think of this move? It really confuses me when the PFR checks to me, I bet and he raises? It especially confuses me on wet flops where I could check back a lot so why risk that with a hand that is big enough to check raise? I generally assume it's a fish with the nuts and fold and move on but the play just doesn't make sense so a part of me always wants to call. This move is pretty rare though and I never have a hand strong enough to call with.

Any good players ever play a hand like this? I assume it falls under the same category as a donk bet whereas it is very rarely the right play.
Click to expand...

sometimes ,I just reserve this play for the very floaty villains that don't like to fold, but have a high bet vs miss cbet. It is difficult to know what does it mean ,unless you have some read on your opponent, if a villain is doing it all the time certainly going to be way less credible than someone doing it 5-10%.
 
I often play a check/raise to rivals worried and dumped the card. Because of this, lose a lot of chips
 
SB: 237.31 BB
BB: 88.35 BB
UTG: 179.93 BB
MP: 100 BB
CO: 61.69 BB
Hero (BTN): 562.44 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:heart: Q:club:

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero calls 3 BB, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (9.5 BB, 3 players) K:heart: 3:spade: A:spade:
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets 5 BB, fold, MP raises to 12.25 BB, Hero calls 7.25 BB

Turn: (34 BB, 2 players) 2:heart:
MP bets 17 BB, Hero calls 17 BB

River: (68 BB, 2 players) 4:heart:
MP bets 67.75 BB and is all-in, fold,
 
IPlay said:
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A<font color='red'>♥</font> Q<font color='black'>♣</font>
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you don't think villian ever barrels off with a missed flush draw?

also 3bet pre you nit
 
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