Check/raise from pre flop raiser

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bitowl said:
you don't think villian ever barrels off with a missed flush draw?

also 3bet pre you nit
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haha and idk man. As on the board cuts off a lot of his flush draw barrel combos so theres that.

This is also a spot that I 3bet and call like 50/50. I don't think the EV changes much between the 2. Flatting lets me keep his range wide and AQ isn't doing that great against his 3 bet calling range. It would have made this hand a little easier though.
 
3-betting or flatting pre is meh. Without a VPIP/PFR on villain, I quite like the CC.

As played, his flop line is weird as he risks getting it checked through. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a weak made hand with a strong draw (like KsQs) here.

I call this river. Sizing is very much "go away".
 
Wouldn't most draws just CBet flop? Also, would they jam this river after I called a x/raise and barrel? Only thing I fold that gets here is a draw and if he has the draw it is hard for me to have it?
 
IPlay said:
SB: 237.31 BB
BB: 88.35 BB
UTG: 179.93 BB
MP: 100 BB
CO: 61.69 BB
Hero (BTN): 562.44 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A<font color='red'>♥</font> Q<font color='black'>♣</font>

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero calls 3 BB, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (9.5 BB, 3 players) K<font color='red'>♥</font> 3<font color='black'>♠</font> A<font color='black'>♠</font>
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets 5 BB, fold, MP raises to 12.25 BB, Hero calls 7.25 BB

Turn: (34 BB, 2 players) 2<font color='red'>♥</font>
MP bets 17 BB, Hero calls 17 BB

River: (68 BB, 2 players) 4<font color='red'>♥</font>
MP bets 67.75 BB and is all-in, fold,
Click to expand...

I don't profess to be a good player but in this hand I can only see villain check raising with a few things. A10+ (could be Ace rag) or possibly K10+(more doubtful) that they're worried will be out drawn if another spade comes up or, low connected spades that could push someone off an Acex/Kx or higher connected spades. I actually am thinking 45s here
 
Tbh I timed out as I was clicking call. This was 100NL zone and you only get 15 seconds with no time bank. I for sure could of used a full minute because it was such a tough spot. But on Bovada you can see hole cards 24 hours later and villain had A3s and I kind of like the way he played it. Best way he could of played to stack Ax because I was never raising.
 
3-bet pre. Cold-calling in this spot kinda sucks, from my experience on 100NL Zone. We get squeezed a decent % of the time, and we obviously cannot defend/4-bet backraise readless. People are aggro af in Zone; in a cash game, I don't mind the coldcall. But I still prefer a 3-bet.

They will be OOP to us, and they have to muck a huge % of their range. People will call less lightly OOP to 3-bets, and AQ has pretty good equity against his calling range. We also take the initiative and can take down the pot pre or post with a c-bet. We also get to at least see 4 cards, as no one really donks out in 3-bet pots.

As played, pretty much lol folding to the CR. I doubt the players are creative enough to have combo draws in their CR range here. It's never going to be air/middle pair/bottom pair. Most likely two pair/sets. AK/AA/KK/AK/33/a small % of A3s (some don't open it, and most people are just probably barreling away with top & bottom).
 
MinhANguyen said:
3-bet pre. Cold-calling in this spot kinda sucks, from my experience on 100NL Zone. We get squeezed a decent % of the time, and we obviously cannot defend/4-bet backraise readless. People are aggro af in Zone; in a cash game, I don't mind the coldcall. But I still prefer a 3-bet.

They will be OOP to us, and they have to muck a huge % of their range. People will call less lightly OOP to 3-bets, and AQ has pretty good equity against his calling range. We also take the initiative and can take down the pot pre or post with a c-bet. We also get to at least see 4 cards, as no one really donks out in 3-bet pots.

As played, pretty much lol folding to the CR. I doubt the players are creative enough to have combo draws in their CR range here. It's never going to be air/middle pair/bottom pair. Most likely two pair/sets. AK/AA/KK/AK/33/a small % of A3s (some don't open it, and most people are just probably barreling away with top & bottom).
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why not if we get squeezed a decent %? 🙂

tricky spot post flop. As played, I'd call riv. or fold flop. If they're taking this line as a bluff I'd be suprised if they would be the "one n done" type.
 
Because we turn our range face-up when we 4-bet backraise or defend the squeeze. And if we defend, we have 0 initiative in the hand, and it's too difficult to bluff with the pot already so bloated from the squeeze. And flopping TPTK or TPGK puts us way behind their value range.

If the table were really squeeze happy, I'd backraise something like AK/AA/KK to make them stack off lighter. But I'd rather just 3-bet myself.
 
I think 3 betting in that spot is so close to the same EV as flatting it is not even worth discussing unless someone wants to bust out some calculations. Also in this spot I assume BB isn't a very good player judging by his stack so I welcome him to come along and suspect he isn't bluff squeezing that often. If it was deep stacks in the blinds I would probably 3 bet.

Like I said, sometimes I 3 bet here sometimes I flat.
 
IPlay said:
SB: 237.31 BB
BB: 88.35 BB
UTG: 179.93 BB
MP: 100 BB
CO: 61.69 BB
Hero (BTN): 562.44 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A<font color='red'>♥</font> Q<font color='black'>♣</font>

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero calls 3 BB, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (9.5 BB, 3 players) K<font color='red'>♥</font> 3<font color='black'>♠</font> A<font color='black'>♠</font>
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets 5 BB, fold, MP raises to 12.25 BB, Hero calls 7.25 BB

Turn: (34 BB, 2 players) 2<font color='red'>♥</font>
MP bets 17 BB, Hero calls 17 BB

River: (68 BB, 2 players) 4<font color='red'>♥</font>
MP bets 67.75 BB and is all-in, fold,
Click to expand...

wow his aggro play sure put you on a tight spot.
Going all in with flush draw I dont think he has, The betting pattern dont make sense. When he re-raised you on flop, my opinion he has Ax, How strong??? tough guess. My move will be to re-raise flop & all in

disclaimer Im just new & learning 🙂
 
I would agree it's villain dependent. Online micro 6max this is fairly common with a higher % of them being bluffs or strong top pair cards. How often are you c-betting? Against people who c-bet 100% it's a decent play.
 
I never raced at the pre flop,it's a big risc,only if i have AA,KK,QQ,JJ maybe
 
This also sounds like FPS to me and I think you are right in that fish do not understand to bet big on wet flops if they hit. They also nearly always check their pure monsters so I believe your logic is correct.
 
the reason for this move is the exact reason you describe it confuses people and something inside them makes them want to call. I don't know why this works but it does, i suppose it's just another lesson in reading our opponents to know if they are bluffing or strong.
 
Do you need to re-raise only if you have a very strong hand. But if you do not catch anything on the flop, I think more to call or re-raise is meaningless..
 
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