Live Grind: How to Fall Asleep at the Table (Without Getting Caught)

Followed on Twitter! Good luck in the 1111 for one drop!

gl in Vegas! I might be there myself so I'll get in touch if that happens.

IPlay said:

Awesome man, sounds like you have a fun and exciting summer ahead of you! Looking forward to reading about it and good luck on your cash grind and the one drop!

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Thanks for the well wishes - it should be pretty awesome!! To be frank, I'm loath to spend so much money effectively all at once, but the truth is that my bankroll exploded these past 5 months, I'm a favorite to make SOME money in the cash games I'll be playing in. On top of that, it's all coming out of my bankroll, not my liferoll, and I haven't taken any money out of my bankroll in probably a year and a half, except to pay for strategy content.

I'm psyched for the Vegas and the cash games, but I'm even more psyched up for the tournament. I know it's just one tournament, so I shouldn't get too pumped up about a variance-ridden, soul-sucking thing, but it's hard not to. The truth is, I'll be playing for potentially life-changing money if I can clear the first round of min-cashes.

Mr Sandbag said:

Good luck! I'll hit you up on Twitter. I don't really use it much aside from fantasy football stuff, but it'll be fun to get updates from you.

Also, pretty sure you can find a 2/5 game anywhere that is way better than the shitty one in Cleveland. Saturday night - they had one table. Sunday afternoon - interest list only.

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Didn't know you used twitter. Send me a PM if I don't follow you back when you follow me. Sometimes someone follows me and I had no idea who it was and don't follow back (trying not to follow 10x more people than the number following me haha).

I'm holding onto the hope that Vegas 2/5 is actually significantly easier, but again my hours are going to depend so much on how I run in the tourney, and obv any cash in that tourney will be pretty solid for me. Who knows, maybe you'll get to watch me live on the final table web stream

But I'm hoping to focus my hours at Foxwoods in the 2/5 NL game there. (Assuming it runs every weeknight.)

BenjiHustle said:

Followed on Twitter! Good luck in the 1111 for one drop!

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Thanks for the follow and the luck! Hopefully I can make CC proud.

DunningKruger said:

gl in Vegas! I might be there myself so I'll get in touch if that happens.

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Thanks! I'm hoping to run into as many people as I can, so I'm bummed I'll only be there a measly 4 days. Definitely let me know if you'll be around for those days though - would be awesome to meet you in person!

nichka33 said:

i enjoyed the OP man, definitely in and good luck!

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Better late than never - welcome to the thread!!

On a sidenote, I'm watching the live stream of the Event #7 Razz final table here: http://www.wsop.com/2014/live-video/default.aspx?sr=&TID=13607 I tuned in just for HU between Phil Hellmuth and Ted Forrest, and Dave Tuchman quoted two of my tweets to him (so far) on the live stream. Pretty cool feeling even if it doesn't represent any real "fame," lol.

Scourrge said:

Better late than never - welcome to the thread!!

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I think all of that guy's posts here are just copy/pasted from other people in the same topic (trying to qualify for the freerolls I guess). This one he copied here in your thread was post #4 back on the first page.

DunningKruger said:

I think all of that guy's posts here are just copy/pasted from other people in the same topic (trying to qualify for the freerolls I guess). This one he copied here in your thread was post #4 back on the first page.

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You've just reminded me about the first page DK. Those hot model pics from Scourrge's first post dried up pretty quick.

DunningKruger said:

I think all of that guy's posts here are just copy/pasted from other people in the same topic (trying to qualify for the freerolls I guess). This one he copied here in your thread was post #4 back on the first page.

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oh FFS, another one. MODS!

DunningKruger said:

I think all of that guy's posts here are just copy/pasted from other people in the same topic (trying to qualify for the freerolls I guess). This one he copied here in your thread was post #4 back on the first page.

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OMGITSOVER9K said:

oh FFS, another one. MODS!

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Oops. Good catch DK. Weird though since he already had like 170 posts?

stately7 said:

You've just reminded me about the first page DK. Those hot model pics from Scourrge's first post dried up pretty quick.

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Psh. Although I guess I should try to rev up my readership for when I start posting again, so.... here you go:

Well played - I guess I'm a happy customer

stately7 said:

Well played - I guess I'm a happy customer

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Happy to oblige


So I've got a little bit of an update, and a question for you guys who still pay some vague level of attention to this thread.

First off, I switched my Foxwoods hotel. Instead of staying on-site, I'll be staying about 7 miles away in a super-cheap, pretty meh place. While being able to roll out of bed and into the poker room would have been really nice, I think the 15-20 minute "commute" in the late morning/early afternoon will be good for me to treat the day as grind time, and the drive back will be a good way to unwind from the hopefully long, poker-filled days. Plus, only paying $175 for 3 nights in the hotel as compared with about $450 at one of the "resorts" was a pretty significant factor.

Now for my question. I noticed that Foxwoods is actually running some pretty sick tournaments while I'll be around. They're calling it their "Summer Kickoff," and you can look at the events here: http://www.foxwoods.com/uploadedFil...OP/2014/310941_FOX_wsop_satellite_8x10_03.pdf

The specific event I'd be looking to play is Event #5, which has three Day 1's (with two flights per day) and a single Day 2. You can look at the structure here: http://www.foxwoods.com/uploadedFil...ent 5 250 NLH Multi flight Event Re-Entry.pdf

The cliffs are, it's 25 minute blinds for Day 1, with 40 minute blinds on Day 2. It's a $215+$35 buyin with unlimited re-entry, but it's unlikely I'd re-enter except under pretty bizarre circumstances.

So question number one here is do you guys think I should play? The structure strikes me as fast on Day 1, but quite, QUITE reasonable on Day 2. If you make it to Day 2, you've cashed. The other thing is that you start out with 15,000 chips and 25/50 blinds, or 300bb. And even if you entered 2 and a half hours late, you'd still have 50bb to work with. Each Day 1 will play down to about 11% of the field, so my thought is that average stack will be between 25 and 35 bb. So I'm anticipating Day 1 to end around level 16-18.

Since that represents about 8-10 hours of play, I'd definitely want to play in an 11am Flight as opposed to a 5pm one. Plus that way if I bust early, I can still fall back on cash games. So the next question is, what day do you think I should play in if I play at all? As a reminder, I'll be driving in on this Monday, June 9th. I have yet to decide whether I want to drive in the morning or not. If I don't and I still want to play an 11am flight, I'll have to do either Tuesday or Wednesday. I think there are pros and cons to all options, so I'm curious what you guys will come up with.

Sorry for the kind of unnecessarily long post, but I'm starting to get pretty excited!!! Let me know what thoughts you guys have, and I'll ofc reply with unnecessarily long thoughts back!

P.S. My gf noticed me playing pineapple open face chinese poker on my phone and was intrigued enough that she asked me how to play and stuff. Then one day she asked to play!! Then my parents saw us playing in the house and wanted to learn too. Sick brags itt.

Well, if you have absolutely no intention of rebuying, I'd say pass on the tourney. It's a bit of a mistake to not rebuy if you feel you have any edge on the field. Plus, you're going to be playing tourneys in Vegas, so you may just want to hit the cash tables as much as you can at Foxwoods. I know you're a sucker for a tourney though.


And that's awesome! I taught my family how to play OFCP awhile back and we played a couple four handed games. It's a great change of pace from holdem since you're basically just calculating "outs" the whole time. I never played the Pineapple version though. I was looking for a 2-7 Triple Draw App too but couldn't find one.

Well tbh whether or not you re-enter depends so much on when you bust. I expect to have an edge on the field, thus the caveat of "except under extenuating circumstances." I would re-enter 1 time if we weren't too deep in the tourney. But because of how deep we start, it's very unlikely I'd bust within the first 6 levels or so. And re-entering for like a 40bb stack or less seems a bit bad.

But anyway, I'll be there for 4 total days. On my last day, Thursday, I'll be checking out of my hotel on the early side, packing up my car, and just grinding that day at the casino. Then I'll make the 2 hour drive home in the evening most likely. The tourney is at maximum a 2-day commitment, and if I even make it to Day 2, I've cashed. If I don't cash, fine, I've got an extra day to grind cash. If I do cash, then I have a potential 25k score to look forward to

Point is, I'll be grinding cash either way. The other thing is that the last tournament I played, I busted on the first hand that I saw a flop with, and the last one before that was like 2+ months ago. I kind of want a little "warmup" before I play the Little One for One Drop. You're prob right about re-entry though. I should commit to $500 of entries unless it's clearly -EV to re-enter at time X of the tourney.

40bb is heaps to enter with, stop at around 30imo

Yeah I mean if you re-enter you'll have at least 50bb most likely. And I just saw that you can play both Day 1's, get paid for both if you qualify both, and play your best chip stack on Day 2. If you ended Day 1 with kind of a small stack for Day 2, would you consider entering the other Day 1 also, especially if you hadn't rebought? I think you'd pretty much have to since you get paid $750 for a Day 2 qualification, which would cover both Day 1 BI's.

Scourrge said:

So question number one here is do you guys think I should play?

So the next question is, what day do you think I should play in if I play at all?

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Play it, you want the refresher so the Little Drop.

Play Tuesday AM session. It should be a more stable session. The Wed sessions will be full of folks that have already hit Day 2 earlier and thus gambling it up more to get another Day 2 satck. Wed sessions will have more variance.

Jillychemung said:

Play Tuesday AM session. It should be a more stable session. The Wed sessions will be full of folks that have already hit Day 2 earlier and thus gambling it up more to get another Day 2 satck. Wed sessions will have more variance.

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Is that bad though? More variance, yes, but also worse play and the opportunity to build a really huge chip stack.

wed more variance sounds better

Playing Tues AM offers the chance to play again on Wed if he feels the opportunity is right. The variance on Wed will be higher so yeah you may be able to build a bigger stack but you also will have more chances of busting. Since this will also be practice for the Little Drop, Tues AM will most closely match that.

For sure be willing to fire 2

Thanks for the input and discussion guys. A lot of it lines up with what I was thinking, but some stuff I didn't consider in here too

duggs said:

40bb is heaps to enter with, stop at around 30imo

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duggs said:

For sure be willing to fire 2

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Mr Sandbag said:

Yeah I mean if you re-enter you'll have at least 50bb most likely.

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Yeah this sounds about right to me. Only thing I'm unsure of is whether I should be willing to fire 2 bullets in one day, 2 on two separate days, or either? I definitely would not be excited to spend $1k on a $250 tourney since I'd have to "go deep" on Day 2 just to breakeven.

Mr Sandbag said:

And I just saw that you can play both Day 1's, get paid for both if you qualify both, and play your best chip stack on Day 2. If you ended Day 1 with kind of a small stack for Day 2, would you consider entering the other Day 1 also, especially if you hadn't rebought? I think you'd pretty much have to since you get paid $750 for a Day 2 qualification, which would cover both Day 1 BI's.

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This is kind of a good point too. If I ended Day 1 with like, fewer than 40bb, would it be worth it to play another session? Probably, and it'd be even more practice too. But then I'd be cutting into potentially very profitable cash sessions, so I'm unsure. I'll have to think more about it.

Jillychemung said:

Play it, you want the refresher so the Little Drop.

Play Tuesday AM session. It should be a more stable session. The Wed sessions will be full of folks that have already hit Day 2 earlier and thus gambling it up more to get another Day 2 satck. Wed sessions will have more variance.

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Interesting thoughts on the variance. I kind of think more in line with Sand and duggs here:

Mr Sandbag said:

Is that bad though? More variance, yes, but also worse play and the opportunity to build a really huge chip stack.

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duggs said:

wed more variance sounds better

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I also agree that the play will be worse. More variance, but again the structure isn't terrible so I think it's pretty manageable.

Jillychemung said:

Playing Tues AM offers the chance to play again on Wed if he feels the opportunity is right. The variance on Wed will be higher so yeah you may be able to build a bigger stack but you also will have more chances of busting. Since this will also be practice for the Little Drop, Tues AM will most closely match that.

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Compelling take on the fact that the Tuesday AM flight will more closely match the Little Drop, but I think just getting back into tourney shape is the main key. And the potential for profit here isn't negligible. It's probably going to be 25k+ up top, so I'm def gonna be giving it my all. Good practice, but also a +EV opportunity.


So what I'm thinking as of now is that I probably want to commit right here and now to playing Tuesday and Wednesday. Waiting until Wednesday to play the probably higher-EV shot is a bit rough because then I don't have that chance to play 2 days. I'd kind of rather have the chance both times, although I guess you could argue that I could just be willing to put 2-3 shots into the Wednesday AM.


The other possibility is to either suck it up and drive in for the 11AM on Monday (would mean waking up at about 7:30am, not something I'm keen on), or possibly playing some 5pm flights (if I cashed I'd be playing until about 3-4am). I guess being willing to play 2 in one day if I bust out late in the AM (after the re-entry period) if the timing is right might be best. Staying flexible seems the highest EV, but I also like to have a plan, so I guess I'm sort of stuck lol...

Man, why did you have to look at the tourney schedule? Couldn't you have just gone straight to cash games?

But seriously, IMO, if you're gonna try this tourney you've got to go all the way with it. That means planning to play both Day 1 events. How about:

- Play the first Day 1 event with the intention of rebuying twice if needed, and...
- If you do not qualify for Day 2, stop and hit the cash tables.
- If you qualify for Day 2, play the second Day 1 event regardless of how many times you rebought the first time.
- Rebuying the second Day 1 event is up to you, but if you qualify for Day 2 without rebuying in the first event, I'd definitely recommend rebuys for the second event.

Na 40bb is heaps, would need to cash with like 10 or less imo, to even consider it. Fire one bullet day 1a busto cash backup, fire 2nd day 1b if needed otherwise cash. Easy game

Mr Sandbag said:

Man, why did you have to look at the tourney schedule? Couldn't you have just gone straight to cash games?

But seriously, IMO, if you're gonna try this tourney you've got to go all the way with it. That means planning to play both Day 1 events. How about:

- Play the first Day 1 event with the intention of rebuying twice if needed, and...
- If you do not qualify for Day 2, stop and hit the cash tables.
- If you qualify for Day 2, play the second Day 1 event regardless of how many times you rebought the first time.
- Rebuying the second Day 1 event is up to you, but if you qualify for Day 2 without rebuying in the first event, I'd definitely recommend rebuys for the second event.

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duggs said:

Na 40bb is heaps, would need to cash with like 10 or less imo, to even consider it. Fire one bullet day 1a busto cash backup, fire 2nd day 1b if needed otherwise cash. Easy game

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Hah yeah I guess you're right duggs. But you don't think it'd be worth firing another bullet on Tuesday or Wednesday to try to get a deeper stack than say 15bb? 20bb? Idk, I could be wrong, especially since the Day 2 structure is slower, but that seems like pretty short stacks to be playing. Although tbf those stacks are more workable live b/c somehow you still have FE with like 5bb shoves in the CO lol.

I think what I may end up doing in terms of schedule is wake up whenever I wake up Monday. Drive over (2 hours), and depending on timing, either head down to the casino or check in to the hotel. If timing works well for the 5pm on Monday, I'll play that. If I don't bust early, awesome, I'll focus on cash until Thursday's Day 2. I will re-enter once if I feel I have a big edge and I'm in the re-entry period still.

If I bust both bullets, or bust one and it's past the re-entry period, I will play Tuesday AM. If I didn't re-enter Monday, I'll re-enter Tuesday if I bust. If I re-entered Monday, I probably won't re-enter Tuesday, but rather play Wednesday with up to 2 bullets. Or maybe skip Tuesday altogether, and fire 2 bullets Wednesday? I don't really want to fire FIVE shots at this thing lol. So maybe just Tuesday and Wednesday?! I'm all flippy floppy about, which prob means it doesn't make too much of a difference.

I guess realistically I should give myself some "warmup" cash games before any tournament shot, so that will be my priority. If I don't play a Monday flight, that's alright. Again, I think 4 shots is the max I want to take, but I want the option of at least one re-entry, so I'll probably play a max of 2 different Day 1's.

And as for whether to take another shot if I DO end up making Day 2, it should probably depend more on where I fall compared to average stack than the actual number of blinds. So if close to average, just don't worry about it.

#canyoutellimgettingexcitedtofinallypokeragain

dude if you have a limited number of bullets, regging each flight seems like the best option, since reentry is going to be into worse conditions than just entering next day, especially if you have cash games running to convert the spare time into $EV and fEV

Scourrge said:

Better late than never - welcome to the thread!!

On a sidenote, I'm watching the live stream of the Event #7 Razz final table here: http://www.wsop.com/2014/live-video/default.aspx?sr=&TID=13607 I tuned in just for HU between Phil Hellmuth and Ted Forrest, and Dave Tuchman quoted two of my tweets to him (so far) on the live stream. Pretty cool feeling even if it doesn't represent any real "fame," lol.

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I get all excited every time one of my tweets get read on air. Its fun to get to interact with the streams, huh?
Wishing you luck on your super summer schedule!