MicroCrushers Thread!!!!!

[orangepeeleo]

The only maths I feel like I do at the table is the good ol' 2 & 4 rule lol might do more in my head without realising but I've never been a math dude, along with the table of equity we need when villain bets x pot otr, the station chart as I like to call it, as it means I rarely find a fold lol

 

[pocketehs]

Well that's only if you want a pot-size shove, and also, you could figure this out with SPR, but I guess it's a helpful formula especially if you don't want to guesstimate when you have your timer running our

I prefer something like:



Here's my steps/process below. Lemme know if I made a mistake.

RiverBet = ESS - TurnBet
RiverBet = X%*RiverPot
RiverPot = TurnPot + 2*TurnBet

Known: X% (percentage of the pot we want the river shove to be), TurnPot (current pot size), ESS (effective stack size)

ESS - TurnBet = X%*(TurnPot+2*TurnBet)
ESS - TurnBet = X%*TurnPot + 2X%*TurnBet

ESS - X%*TurnPot = (1+2X%)*TurnBet
TurnBet = (ESS - X%*TurnPot)/(1+2X%)

or perhaps easier to read:

Bet Size = (ESS - X*Potsize)/(1+2X)

where X is the fraction of the pot we want the river bet to be. I checked my work by setting X to 1, and you get the same thing as pocketehs equation.

If I can somehow do it on the fly I prefer to work out a turn bet for a river shove that is less than pot size, so, you know, they feel 'priced in'

I agree that its for a river shove but then you can play around with bet sizing once you know what the minimum the turn betsizing should be. Agree with cafeman that I like to give them the "right odds to call" OTR by making it less than 1 PSB

 

[micromachine]

Not sure if ppl have heard of this but just came across it and thought id share.

Turn betsizing to set up stack for the river..

Bet size = (Remaining Effective Stacks – Existing Pot)/3

Example. 30bb pot, ESS = 90bbs

(90-30)/3 = 20bbs

30 + 20 + 20 = 70bb pot on river with 70bb ESS on river

Nice, haven't seen this before.

Playing around with some numbers I found it's easy to get 100bb stacks in by the river in standard 3bet pots (where the open is 3bb and the 3b is to 9bb) by making 1/2 PSBs on the flop and turn, setting up for a ~90% pot shove on the river. So you dont really need to think about bet sizing in 3b pots if you want to GII.

It's also going to be easy to get stacks in on the river if there has been a decent sized raise on the flop by doing a 1/2 PSB on the turn.

And in non 3bet hands without a raise post (bet, call, bet, call) it's impossible to get 100bb stacks in by the river.

So when is this useful? I suppose in pots where there has been a min-raise or pots which start with a min 3bet, and also pots where you are deeper than 100bb where there has been a 3bet or a raise on the flop.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

That was my whole point of working out that equation lol... You want a 2/3 PSB OTR, then X = 2/3. Obv it's a balancing act to get turn and river bet sizes to work.

I could tweak the equation so that the turn bet in relation to the turn pot = the river shove in relation to the river pot, but not gonna bother if people won't use it lol.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Nice, haven't seen this before.

Playing around with some numbers I found it's easy to get 100bb stacks in by the river in standard 3bet pots (where the open is 3bb and the 3b is to 9bb) by making 1/2 PSBs on the flop and turn, setting up for a ~90% pot shove on the river. So you dont really need to think about bet sizing in 3b pots if you want to GII.

It's also going to be easy to get stacks in on the river if there has been a decent sized raise on the flop by doing a 1/2 PSB on the turn.

And in non 3bet hands without a raise post (bet, call, bet, call) it's impossible to get 100bb stacks in by the river.

So when is this useful? I suppose in pots where there has been a min-raise or pots which start with a min 3bet, and also pots where you are deeper than 100bb where there has been a 3bet or a raise on the flop.

This is useful in every single small-SPR turn situation ever? Pots don't have to be 3bet pots to get large btw. Check-raises and raises on flops aren't so uncommon that you can ignore them

 

[micromachine]

This is useful in every single small-SPR turn situation ever? Pots don't have to be 3bet pots to get large btw. Check-raises and raises on flops aren't so uncommon that you can ignore them

My second point was about check raised pots, but redoing the calculation I see you would actually need more than a 1/2 PSB OTT to get stacks in by the river in a standard check/raised pot, 2/3 PSB does it nicely

BTN raises to 3bb, BB calls 3bb
flop (6.5bb) BB checks, BTN bets 4bb, BB raises to 12bb, BTN calls 8bb
turn (30.5bb) BB checks, BTN bets 20bb, BB calls 20bb
river (70.5bb) BB checks, BTN bets 65bb (all in)

Just saying that in certain situations you wont need to think about it, like in unraised pots and 3bet pots. And also there are probably situations you can take a shortcut and remember the sizing needed, like in a non 3bet, 3x c/r on the flop hand like above.

 

[micromachine]

HOTM

PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $14.24
Hero (SB): $28.14
BB: $24.69
UTG: $27.64
MP: $10.99
CO: $24.79

Hero posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has A♥ A♠

UTG raises to $0.75, MP raises to $10.99 and is all-in, fold, fold, Hero calls $10.89, fold, UTG calls $10.24

Flop: ($33.22, 3 players) 8♦ 4♣ 7♦
Hero bets $17.15 and is all-in, UTG calls $16.65 and is all-in

Turn: ($66.52, 3 players) 6♣

River: ($66.52, 3 players) A♦

[spoil]Hero shows A♥ A♠ (Three of a Kind, Aces) (Pre 76%, Flop 88%, Turn 89%)
UTG shows J♣ J♥ (One Pair, Jacks) (Pre 19%, Flop 11%, Turn 8%)
MP shows K♠ A♣ (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 5%, Flop 1%, Turn 3%)
Hero wins $64.52
[/spoil]

 

[AlfieAA]

Don't put yourself down so much alfie. I guarantee very few people itt do so much off-table math work that it's consistently informing all their actions (myself included obv).

There's a reason not many people do it - it's not easy!

Its weird because I was always scared of maths, because I didn't think I was intelligent enough to learn it, so I just ignored it and failed even the basic maths exam at school....however over the past week I've been getting into it and actually quite enjoying it, so I think I'm going to stick with it and practice every day

 

[Yoshimiii]

Perfect troll hand for inserting GIF's. I was fist pumping that turn thinking that my fishy opponent had an overpair.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

MP ($9.97)
CO ($14.35)
Button ($10)
SB ($30.47)
Hero (BB) ($10)
UTG ($11.96)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

, A

1 fold, MP bets $0.30, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.90, MP calls $0.60

Flop: ($1.85) 7

, 5

, 7

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.20, MP calls $1.20

Turn: ($4.25) 7

(2 players)
Hero bets $2.80, MP calls $2.80

River: ($9.85) 5

(2 players)
Hero bets $5.10 (All-In), MP calls $5.07 (All-In)

Total pot: $19.99 | Rake: $0.90

Results below:

Spoiler

Hero had A

, A

(full house, sevens over Aces).
MP had 5

, 7

(four of a kind, sevens).
Outcome: MP won $19.09

 

[micromachine]

 

[Cafeman]

Just saying that in certain situations you wont need to think about it, like in unraised pots and 3bet pots.

MW pots are another situation that happen quite a bit, and require a little more thought into betsizing too.

I make loads of betsizing mistakes, especially in MW pots.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

MW pots are another situation that happen quite a bit, and require a little more thought into betsizing too.

I make loads of betsizing mistakes, especially in MW pots.

Yah good point Cafe - betsizing is def somewhere I've improved a lot and still have plenty of room to learn. Prob one of the biggest and least-noticed leaks at micros is in bet-sizing. Betting too much when bluffing and not enough when value betting, and sometimes in the name of "balance" against players who aren't even looking at your bets

 

[xdeucesx]

The only maths I feel like I do at the table is the good ol' 2 & 4 rule lol might do more in my head without realising but I've never been a math dude, along with the table of equity we need when villain bets x pot otr, the station chart as I like to call it, as it means I rarely find a fold lol

i'm kind of the same way lol ^

As were on the topic, does anyone know any good DC series concerning doing simple math at the table and such?

 

[Logan2]

Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players -

Hero (UTG): $10.00
CO: $8.85
BTN: $10.13
SB: $1.31
BB: $17.70

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG with A

A

Hero raises to $0.30, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.30, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.75) 5

9

9

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.36, BTN calls $0.36

Turn: ($1.47) 5

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.70, BTN raises to $2.05, Hero calls $1.35

River: ($5.57) 3

(2 players)
Hero bets $2.66, BTN raises to $7.42 all in,

Hero calls $4.63 all in

Final Pot: $20.15
Hero shows A

A

(two pair, Aces and Nines)
BTN shows T

J

(two pair, Nines and Fives)
Hero wins $19.24

-------------------------------------------------------------



Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players

SB: $10.00
Hero (BB): $10.00
UTG: $11.89
MP: $10.66
CO: $14.66
BTN: $33.30

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with K

A

UTG raises to $0.30, 4 folds, Hero raises to $0.80, UTG calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.65) K

K

3

Hero bets $0.79, UTG calls $0.79

Turn: ($3.23) J

(2 players)
Hero bets $2.31, UTG raises to $6.20,

Hero raises to $8.41 all in, UTG calls $2.21

River: ($20.05) 4

(2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $20.05
Hero shows K

A

(three of a kind, Kings)
UTG mucks 8

J

Hero wins $19.15

​

 

[pocketehs]

i'm kind of the same way lol ^

As were on the topic, does anyone know any good DC series concerning doing simple math at the table and such?

Deuces check out WiltOnTilts mathematics of NLHE

 

[AlfieAA]

Deuces check out WiltOnTilts mathematics of NLHE

Is the video series free to view?

 

[orangepeeleo]

Gonna give ipoker a try next month, payed $130 rake this month and got a $10 stellar back, looks like theres enough 20nl tables there for me.

I have a £ moneybookers accout and $ ipoker one though so moving it over cost me $20 pretty much thanks to exchange rate fees have never really noticed when moving couple hundred around but it stings a bit when moving $900/£580, no idea why I set ipoker up in dollars, hopefuly theres a good reason that I've forgot about lol

 

[micromachine]

^^ That sucks to have to pay $20. Which iPoker site are you going to play on? And have you got any rakeback?

Think I'm on for my first positive month of the year up about $60 so far, been screwed by variance though....EV line is +$110.

 

[orangepeeleo]

Yeah I have 55% on w1nn3r poker (hiding from search engines lol) I know you can get 60% at some other skins but meh, will still make more back than playing stars by a country mile, I just don't put in the volume now to get anything back. Been chatting to a few people over pm at 2p2 and keeping an eye on the ipoker lobby while I've been playing stars, looks like plenty of tables between 7pm and 11pm gmt which is fine for me.

Will report back at the end of next month with profit/rakeback numbers!

 

[orangepeeleo]

I think the reason for a $ account was because that's the currency games I play in the most, so no worries with rates when using auto topup etc, either way I'll make that $20 back from rb next month so can't moan really.

 

[micromachine]

55% my lord that's sweet as, can't wait to build up a bit more and give ipoker a try I get that the ipoker player pool is shared but are you funds as safe on one site as they are on another?

 

[orangepeeleo]

Yeah I think so, probs safest with one of the bigger UK bookies but I'm not sure what deals are available for those sites anymore, it's the 3rd biggest network with a lot of big skins so I'd say funds are safe enough

 

[micromachine]

Yeah I was thinking of going with Hilliam Will but obv not if I can get 50%+ RB elsewhere

 

[Yoshimiii]

What do you guys think of this fold, Villain tells me what he had after, Villain is a multi-tabling solid regular with a 4.6% 3bet stat:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

BB ($10)
UTG ($16.94)
MP ($10)
CO ($10.14)
Hero (Button) ($10)
SB ($10.13)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q

, J

1 fold, MP bets $0.30, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.30, SB calls $0.25, 1 fold

Flop: ($1) 9

, K

, J

(3 players)
SB checks, MP checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($1) 10

(3 players)
SB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $0.70, SB raises to $2.40, 1 fold, Hero folds

Total pot: $2.40 | Rake: $0.11

 

[duggs]

dont really like folding there