Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

fletchdad · Apr 2, 2016

I am going to try to get involved in a sweat, time is an issue for me tho... I will see when I can do it. The sweat time is usually family and house stuff time for me.

I am going to post some hnds. Can I link them here from the HH section, or should I post them here as well? Or do you guys like to keep your HH discussion just in these "4 walls"?..lol

fletchdad · Apr 2, 2016

I am posting this hand mainly to see how you categorize a player like this and your strategy vs him generally. As well as your thoughts on my thoughts...

I was hoping he would do something like this. I was putting myself in his spot. Is this a good play (I myself would have folded all day long in his shoes) considering he thought he might have FE, or can i just mark him Green (fish) and make a note he james on boards like this with open enders?

I always delete my stats in HH posts, as they are life time. ATM I am running overall since around 5 months 15/19/ 3bet 3.8, AF 3, Ag% 26, WTSD 27, W$SD 54. I am trying to get less passive but have a lot of stuff to work on.

poker stars $2.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 2891243
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: $2.28 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 15, 3B: 5, AF: 1.1, hands: 251
BTN: $2.00 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 19, 3B: 3, AF: 1.5, Hands: 245
Hero (SB): $4.06
BB: $0.76 - VPIP: 39, PFR: 14, 3B: 8, AF: 1.7, Hands: 377
UTG: $2.20 - VPIP: 13, PFR: 9, 3B: 4, AF: 1.0, Hands: 187

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is SB with J :heart: J :spade:
2 folds, BTN raises to $0.06, Hero raises to $0.16, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.34) 5 :heart: 9 :club: J :club: (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.24, Hero raises to $0.48, BTN raises to $1.84, Hero calls $1.36

Turn: ($4.02) T :club: (2 players)

River: ($4.02) K :spade: (2 players)

Final Pot: $4.02
BTN shows T :diamond: Q :club:
Hero shows J :heart: J :spade:
BTN wins $3.88
(Rake: $0.14)

Figaroo2 · Apr 2, 2016

You played this fine. Against an aggressive player who is going to bet if you check then check raising is fine. Against more passive players just lead out into them and start building the pot. 2/3 to 3/4 pot sizing is fine at these stakes.
The only adjustment I'd make is the size of your opening 3bet which is a little small. In the SB you will always be oop so we can reduce that disadvantage by betting much bigger from this position. This inflates the pot much quicker which makes pot commitment issues arise earlier. In effect you can often remove a street of betting which reduces your positional disadvantage.
So make it a minimum of X 3.5 but usually x4. Against players that never fold to 3bets you can experiment even bigger.

fletchdad · Apr 2, 2016

Figaroo2 said:
You played this fine. Against an aggressive player who is going to bet if you check then check raising is fine. Against more passive players just lead out into them and start building the pot. 2/3 to 3/4 pot sizing is fine at these stakes.
The only adjustment I'd make is the size of your opening 3bet which is a little small. In the SB you will always be oop so we can reduce that disadvantage by betting much bigger from this position. This inflates the pot much quicker which makes pot commitment issues arise earlier. In effect you can often remove a street of betting which reduces your positional disadvantage.
So make it a minimum of X 3.5 but usually x4. Against players that never fold to 3bets you can experiment even bigger.

Thanks for the reply, but I didnt make myself real clear on one point. What do you think of his play here, and since he is a reg I see a lot (or will be seeing, he was on about 8 tables so I am assuming he is a reg that I now will target???), how should I play vs him? I know it cant be summed up in a sentence, but generally?

I play 2 nl still, and took a beating last night, just as I was about to move up to 5nl, but will need to build back up a bit now. I am posting in the HH section. Should I link to here as well?

Figaroo2 · Apr 2, 2016

You can post wherever you want!! The quality of the feedback can vary quite a bit in the cash game forum, some people can actually be quite rude which you won't get in this thread.
Some of us don't always have the time to check all the forums and I quite often don't look at the 2nl hands as there are numerous and the advice can often be given by many.

As regards this guy, you will have to take notes and this is a fine example of why. We were happy to gii here as we had the nuts on this occasion. But there will be many more situations like this where we will have an over pair or tptk instead of top set
if you play it this way and your check raise gets shoved on, it will be mainly by sets and the occasional monster draw. But mostly you will be crushed by a set and only have 2 outs to rescue yourself. Shoving all in over a check raise is a very strong a move and weighted heavily towards the nuts especially at 2nl.
However if you know from notes that this guy is capable of doing this with oesd and flush draws then you can be much happier to call his shoves with weaker made hands than just the nuts like we did here.

Figaroo2 · Apr 2, 2016

Make sure you pay attention to the hands he shows down so you can see if he also shoves his sets this way or whether he slow plays them. If he flats your check raise when he has the nuts you can be even more sure his shoves are draws.

fletchdad · Apr 2, 2016

I actually stacked him later on another table when he shoved over me OTF, I was OOP and made a 3/4 PSB, he shoves with AKo and BDFD vs my set...lol

John A · Apr 2, 2016

John A said:
6 more accounts left.

2 more accounts left still. I will update everyone all at once, so if you haven't gotten updated yet, it's because I'm waiting and doing it all in one shot,

John A · Apr 2, 2016

TimovieMan said:
I tried registering again with a different email address and another nickname (3HeadedMonkey) while using IE instead of Chrome. I got the exact same issue. But when creating the account, I had selected "The Roots" instead of "The Seeds" which this time lead me to a payment screen, where I obviously didn't continue.
I then tried a third account with Chrome again (Filmfreak), and that DID work. But I got a confirmation mail, and I didn't get one the first two times, so maybe my TimovieMan account wasn't created correctly?

Would it be possible to completely delete these accounts, so I can recreate a TimovieMan one? That's the name I use *everywhere*...

Thanks for the feedback. It should have been fixed yesterday. So as long as you select a seeds account it should all work now.

I hope. lol

John A · Apr 2, 2016

fletchdad said:
I am posting this hand mainly to see how you categorize a player like this and your strategy vs him generally. As well as your thoughts on my thoughts...

I was hoping he would do something like this. I was putting myself in his spot. Is this a good play (I myself would have folded all day long in his shoes) considering he thought he might have FE, or can i just mark him Green (fish) and make a note he james on boards like this with open enders?

I always delete my stats in HH posts, as they are life time. ATM I am running overall since around 5 months 15/19/ 3bet 3.8, AF 3, Ag% 26, WTSD 27, W$SD 54. I am trying to get less passive but have a lot of stuff to work on.

Poker Stars $2.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 2891243
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: $2.28 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 15, 3B: 5, AF: 1.1, Hands: 251
BTN: $2.00 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 19, 3B: 3, AF: 1.5, Hands: 245
Hero (SB): $4.06
BB: $0.76 - VPIP: 39, PFR: 14, 3B: 8, AF: 1.7, Hands: 377
UTG: $2.20 - VPIP: 13, PFR: 9, 3B: 4, AF: 1.0, Hands: 187

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is SB with J ♥ J ♠
2 folds, BTN raises to $0.06, Hero raises to $0.16, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.34) 5 ♥ 9 ♣ J ♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.24, Hero raises to $0.48, BTN raises to $1.84, Hero calls $1.36

Turn: ($4.02) T ♣ (2 players)

River: ($4.02) K ♠ (2 players)

Final Pot: $4.02
BTN shows T ♦ Q ♣
Hero shows J ♥ J ♠
BTN wins $3.88
(Rake: $0.14)

Not sure I'd classify him as anything other than maybe an average reg. He was pretty priced into to call in position. Which I'd recommend to 3-bet a little more pre. And I would have just let the flop. Anything that was raising was doing it on the flop or folding. C-bets weren't going to happen too much on that texture in a re-raised pot.

But yeah, if those are your 6-max stats then I'd recommend playing full ring. Just focus on making good decisions there first and getting used to when to call down. The first thing that jumped out of my was your high W$SD which tells me you are probably folding too many winners. Also you're vpip/pfr are clearly really tight for 6-max. Full ring though it's solid.

Well, make time for some of the sweats and keep posting hands. That's the best way to improve.

rhombus · Apr 2, 2016

John A said:
2 more accounts left still. I will update everyone all at once, so if you haven't gotten updated yet, it's because I'm waiting and doing it all in one shot,

I pmed you and signed up the other day Do I need to send a PM again??

rhombus · Apr 2, 2016

Im turning into a NIT Bitch

1st Question .Should I have 4Bet preflop when 3bet so small

As played is this an OK fold when someone double barrelling into 2 players, or just shove turn, as he was an aggressive player 25/25 Agg100% 5 hands

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $10 (100 bb)
BB: $9.42 (94.2 bb)
Hero (UTG): $10.70 (107 bb)
MP: $44.25 (442.5 bb)
CO: $9.57 (95.7 bb)
BTN: $9.56 (95.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T

T

Hero raises to $0.30, MP folds, CO raises to $0.60, 2 folds, BB calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.85) 6

2

5

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $1.77, BB calls $1.77, Hero calls $1.77

Turn: ($7.16) 7

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $7.20 and is all-in, 2 folds

Results: $7.16 pot ($0.32 rake)
Final Board: 6

2

5

7

BB mucked and lost (-$2.37 net)
Hero mucked T

T

and lost (-$2.37 net)
CO mucked and won $6.84 ($4.47 net)

John A · Apr 2, 2016

rhombus said:
I pmed you and signed up the other day Do I need to send a PM again??

nope. All good.

rhombus · Apr 2, 2016

Just played small session
Initially was just going to fire a CBET as their Agg% is only 15% but then decided to fire another one when I picked up flush draw, Should I have checked the Turn??

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $2.16 (21.6 bb)
Hero (BB): $11.37 (113.7 bb)
UTG: $14.88 (148.8 bb)
MP: $10.36 (103.6 bb)
CO: $14.52 (145.2 bb)
BTN: $10 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

A

2 folds, CO raises to $0.25, BTN calls $0.25, SB folds, Hero raises to $1, CO folds, BTN calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.30) 6

8

2

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.10, BTN calls $1.10

Turn: ($4.50) 4

(2 players)
Hero bets $2.86, BTN calls $2.86

River: ($10.22) J

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $5.04 and is all-in, Hero folds

Results: $10.22 pot ($0.46 rake)
Final Board: 6

8

2

4

J

Hero mucked Q

A

and lost (-$4.96 net)
BTN mucked and won $9.76 ($4.80 net)

or3o1990 · Apr 3, 2016

I think that you should have just c/f. If villain does float you here without a pair it's most likely with the ace of spades right? Some times he has a pair and isn't folding other times our fd is dominated.

John A · Apr 3, 2016

rhombus said:
Im turning into a NIT Bitch
1st Question .Should I have 4Bet preflop when 3bet so small

As played is this an OK fold when someone double barrelling into 2 players, or just shove turn, as he was an aggressive player 25/25 Agg100% 5 hands

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $10 (100 bb)
BB: $9.42 (94.2 bb)
Hero (UTG): $10.70 (107 bb)
MP: $44.25 (442.5 bb)
CO: $9.57 (95.7 bb)
BTN: $9.56 (95.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T

T

Hero raises to $0.30, MP folds, CO raises to $0.60, 2 folds, BB calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.85) 6

2

5

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $1.77, BB calls $1.77, Hero calls $1.77

Turn: ($7.16) 7

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $7.20 and is all-in, 2 folds

Results: $7.16 pot ($0.32 rake)
Final Board: 6

2

5

7

BB mucked and lost (-$2.37 net)
Hero mucked T

T

and lost (-$2.37 net)
CO mucked and won $6.84 ($4.47 net)

4-bet, maybe. If you can get BB to fold, but I'd really need more info on both opponents to say. The turn is pretty close. It sounds like he's just one of thos aggro donks, and that being the case it's close. CO shoving into 2 people on the turn would typically be strong, but you might have slightly more than 33% equity here. It's probably pretty close. If you didn't have much info, then folding is fine.

John A · Apr 3, 2016

rhombus said:
Just played small session
Initially was just going to fire a CBET as their Agg% is only 15% but then decided to fire another one when I picked up flush draw, Should I have checked the Turn??

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $2.16 (21.6 bb)
Hero (BB): $11.37 (113.7 bb)
UTG: $14.88 (148.8 bb)
MP: $10.36 (103.6 bb)
CO: $14.52 (145.2 bb)
BTN: $10 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

A

2 folds, CO raises to $0.25, BTN calls $0.25, SB folds, Hero raises to $1, CO folds, BTN calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.30) 6

8

2

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.10, BTN calls $1.10

Turn: ($4.50) 4

(2 players)
Hero bets $2.86, BTN calls $2.86

River: ($10.22) J

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $5.04 and is all-in, Hero folds

Results: $10.22 pot ($0.46 rake)
Final Board: 6

8

2

4

J

Hero mucked Q

A

and lost (-$4.96 net)
BTN mucked and won $9.76 ($4.80 net)

Against someone like this, if they are sticking around in a 4-bet pot then you're beat. It's also not super likely you can get them to fold better w/ AK, and they may just check that behind any ways, which at that point then you can fire most turns (depending). But as played I'd probably just check/see on the flop.

rhombus · Apr 3, 2016

rhombus said:
Im turning into a NIT Bitch
1st Question .Should I have 4Bet preflop when 3bet so small

As played is this an OK fold when someone double barrelling into 2 players, or just shove turn, as he was an aggressive player 25/25 Agg100% 5 hands

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $10 (100 bb)
BB: $9.42 (94.2 bb)
Hero (UTG): $10.70 (107 bb)
MP: $44.25 (442.5 bb)
CO: $9.57 (95.7 bb)
BTN: $9.56 (95.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T

T

Hero raises to $0.30, MP folds, CO raises to $0.60, 2 folds, BB calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.85) 6

2

5

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $1.77, BB calls $1.77, Hero calls $1.77

Turn: ($7.16) 7

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $7.20 and is all-in, 2 folds

Results: $7.16 pot ($0.32 rake)
Final Board: 6

2

5

7

BB mucked and lost (-$2.37 net)
Hero mucked T

T

and lost (-$2.37 net)
CO mucked and won $6.84 ($4.47 net)

De Ja Vous??

Hand 1 1st hand with villain so no read, turn ???
Hand 2 Deep against aggressive opponent who had 3bet a few times. Think I need to be 4Bet Folding maybe when so deep maybe 4B 2.50 and fold if 5bet or they shove

Hand1
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $16.63 (166.3 bb)
BB: $8.90 (89 bb)
UTG: $38.62 (386.2 bb)
MP: $5.37 (53.7 bb)
Hero (CO): $12.82 (128.2 bb)
BTN: $10.04 (100.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T

T

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, BB raises to $0.90, Hero calls $0.60

Flop: ($1.85) 3

7

3

(2 players)
BB bets $0.96, Hero calls $0.96

Turn: ($3.77) 2

(2 players)
BB bets $2.12, Hero ???

Hand2
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $10.83 (108.3 bb)
BB: $9.35 (93.5 bb)
Hero (UTG): $14.64 (146.4 bb)
MP: $10.40 (104 bb)
CO: $14.11 (141.1 bb) 25/18 3Bet 13.9 AG 38%
BTN: $11.55 (115.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q

Q

Hero raises to $0.30, MP folds, CO raises to $0.90, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.60

Flop: ($1.95) 8

4

9

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $1, Hero calls $1

Turn: ($3.95) T

(2 players)
Hero ??????

rhombus · Apr 3, 2016

Maybe this hand should be an advert for not defending suited gappers in the Small Blind (3Bet or Fold). One annoying this was when I shoved the River he timed for about 20 seconds

Thought I played it OK aprt from Preflop
CR flop with BD flush and straight on dry board.
King possibly in his range but picked up ore Equity so bet the turn
When I hit the River, my range was unlikely to have BD flushes so thought may get called with AJ, QK JK etc

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): $11.41 (114.1 bb)
BB: $29.38 (293.8 bb)
UTG: $8.81 (88.1 bb)
MP: $40.60 (406 bb)
CO: $10.28 (102.8 bb)
BTN: $11.38 (113.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4

6

2 folds, CO raises to $0.25, BTN folds, Hero calls $0.20, BB folds

Flop: ($0.60) J

7

2

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.34, Hero raises to $0.96, CO calls $0.62

Turn: ($2.52) K

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.60, CO calls $1.60

River: ($5.72) 9

(2 players)
Hero bets $8.60 and is all-in, CO calls $7.47 and is all-in

Results: $20.66 pot ($0.93 rake)
Final Board: J

7

2

K

9

Hero showed 4

6

and lost (-$10.28 net)
CO showed T

Q

and won $19.73 ($9.45 net)

Figaroo2 · Apr 3, 2016

hehe you got everything you deserved there Rhom. Terrible preflop and hope you have learned your lesson.

jsh169 · Apr 4, 2016

When does this study group happen, it's weekly right?

tagece · Apr 4, 2016

John A said:
2 more accounts left still. I will update everyone all at once, so if you haven't gotten updated yet, it's because I'm waiting and doing it all in one shot,

I sent you a pm making my inscription. It was accepted?

Sneaky Feet · Apr 4, 2016

John A said:
2 more accounts left still. I will update everyone all at once, so if you haven't gotten updated yet, it's because I'm waiting and doing it all in one shot,

John did you get my PM? I sent it to you back on
March 30th. Everything seemed to work for me since I got an email from Pokerzion saying that I was signed up.

rhombus · Apr 4, 2016

TimovieMan said:
I tried registering again with a different email address and another nickname (3HeadedMonkey) while using IE instead of Chrome. I got the exact same issue. But when creating the account, I had selected "The Roots" instead of "The Seeds" which this time lead me to a payment screen, where I obviously didn't continue.
I then tried a third account with Chrome again (Filmfreak), and that DID work. But I got a confirmation mail, and I didn't get one the first two times, so maybe my TimovieMan account wasn't created correctly?

Would it be possible to completely delete these accounts, so I can recreate a TimovieMan one? That's the name I use *everywhere*...

Did you ever get it sorted.

Maybe you had the Caps lock on, or number lock not on or even one of your keys is stuck i.e. a bit of a bacon butty stuck under the shift or Windows key

Open a text or notepad file and type in there to see if all your keys are working

TimovieMan · Apr 4, 2016

rhombus said:
Open a text or notepad file and type in there to see if all your keys are working

Can't do much wrong with copy/paste.

Besides, I tried two computers, on four different days. The keyboard's not the issue.

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