Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

John A · Nov 7, 2014

That's pretty laggy.

Sorry, I haven't been in here this week. I had to have a second follow procedure to my surgery. Nothing serious, but I've been in some pain. Trying to correct an old sports injury that as I've gotten older can't be ignored anymore.

I'm focusing on getting this workbook complete as well. It's very close. We only have a goal of getting everyone that's in here crushing, so no pressure.

Happy Friday...

rhombus · Nov 7, 2014

John A said:
That's pretty laggy.

Sorry, I haven't been in here this week. I had to have a second follow procedure to my surgery. Nothing serious, but I've been in some pain. Trying to correct an old sports injury that as I've gotten older can't be ignored anymore.

I'm focusing on getting this workbook complete as well. It's very close. We only have a goal of getting everyone that's in here crushing, so no pressure.

Happy Friday...

NO worries glad to have you back old man

Figaroo2 · Nov 7, 2014

wishing you a speedy recovery John.
I haven't played this week as my father died on Monday and we had the funeral today.

swingro · Nov 7, 2014

Figaroo2 said:
wishing you a speedy recovery John.
I haven't played this week as my father died on Monday and we had the funeral today.

Wow. Sorry to hear that man. Hope you will get through the hard times that follows. All I can say is that you have all our support in heart.

John A · Nov 7, 2014

Figaroo2 said:
wishing you a speedy recovery John.
I haven't played this week as my father died on Monday and we had the funeral today.

Sorry to hear that man. My condolences to you and your family. I lost my father 7 years ago, and it's still tough as we were close.

If you need anyone to talk to, my "door" is always open.

rhombus · Nov 8, 2014

Figaroo2 said:
wishing you a speedy recovery John.
I haven't played this week as my father died on Monday and we had the funeral today.

Sorry about your loss, thoughts are with you, sometimes Dads are like best friends as well.

Fisi · Nov 9, 2014

Figaroo2 said:
wishing you a speedy recovery John.
I haven't played this week as my father died on Monday and we had the funeral today.

Sorry to hear that man.

Figaroo2 · Nov 9, 2014

firey cross

My old man used to have a poker night on new years day starting at 0030 which used to run all night.
They played a game called firey cross. Two dealt face down to each player and then the 5 community cards layed out in a + with the river put in the middle. You had to play your two hole cards with either the three that run vertical or horizontal.
never seen it anywhere else. For example

hole AA
...A
K J 4
...4

hole 44

best hand is AAAJ4 as the 4's can't make quads

redwards92 · Nov 9, 2014

Figaroo2 said:
My old man used to have a poker night on new years day starting at 0030 which used to run all night.
They played a game called firey cross. Two dealt face down to each player and then the 5 community cards layed out in a + with the river put in the middle. You had to play your two hole cards with either the three that run vertical or horizontal.
never seen it anywhere else. For example

AA
A
K J 4
4
44

best hand is AAAJ4 as the 4's can't make quads

I've played this a bunch before actually at my buddies home game.

Fun game.

sorry to read about your dad

losties · Nov 10, 2014

Wow I am very impressed John. You've got my attention and now I'm interested. Do you mind throwing in abit of an example for each chapter. Cheers for the service John.

nabmom · Nov 10, 2014

John A said:
Sorry, I haven't been in here this week. I had to have a second follow procedure to my surgery.

Wishing you a speedy recovery, John.

Figaroo2 said:
I haven't played this week as my father died on Monday and we had the funeral today.

My deepest condolences on your father's death. "May his memory serve as a blessing," a saying I offer in the hope that you have many good memories that will help you celebrate his life.

rhombus · Nov 11, 2014

Recommendation for Flop or Turn
I know its a WA/WB situation but unsure whether or not to Bet/Fold Flop or Turn
or maybe even bet sizing is wrong as effective stack on flop is not much over a Pot bet, maybe 4Bet smaller?

***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (poker stars)
$10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, November 11, 04:39:16 ET 2014
Table Lachesis III (real money)
Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $16.79 USD ) - VPIP: 19, PFR: 16, 3B: 6, AF: 2.3, hands: 190
Seat 2: Hero ( $9.75 USD ) - VPIP: 25, PFR: 18, 3B: 8, AF: 1.9, Hands: 52340
Seat 3: Player3 ( $9.55 USD ) - VPIP: 19, PFR: 18, 3B: 13, AF: 6.0, Hands: 77
Seat 4: Player4 ( $10.44 USD ) - VPIP: 21, PFR: 17, 3B: 10, AF: 6.5, Hands: 118
Seat 5: Player5 ( $24.40 USD ) - VPIP: 29, PFR: 24, 3B: 6, AF: 2.8, Hands: 293
Seat 6: Player6 ( $7.81 USD ) - VPIP: 29, PFR: 23, 3B: 23, AF: 2.8, Hands: 119
Hero posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
Player3 posts big blind [$0.10 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Kd Kh ]
Player4 folds
Player5 folds
Player6 folds
Player1 folds
Hero raises [$0.25 USD]
Player3 raises [$0.80 USD]
Hero raises [$2.40 USD]
Player3 calls [$1.80 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ As, 3s, 7h ]
Hero checks
Player3 checks
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3h ]
Hero checks
Player3 bets [$3.10 USD]
Hero folds
Player3 wins $3.10 USD
Player3 wins $5.16 USD from main pot

fishinthesea · Nov 12, 2014

Hey guys I've just recently started playing again. Logged around 2k hands. Not a big sample size by any means, but I've seen great improvement in my game. This is from both full ring and 6max.

John A · Nov 12, 2014

losties said:
Wow I am very impressed John. You've got my attention and now I'm interested. Do you mind throwing in abit of an example for each chapter. Cheers for the service John.

Thanks. Almost done with the workbook. I'm on the final chapter now. So close.....

John A · Nov 12, 2014

nabmom said:
Wishing you a speedy recovery, John.

TY!

fishinthesea · Nov 12, 2014

Money lost mostly in big blind.. not sure how to fix except tighten range in bb.

John A · Nov 12, 2014

rhombus said:
Recommendation for Flop or Turn
I know its a WA/WB situation but unsure whether or not to Bet/Fold Flop or Turn
or maybe even bet sizing is wrong as effective stack on flop is not much over a Pot bet, maybe 4Bet smaller?

***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (Poker Stars)
$10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, November 11, 04:39:16 ET 2014
Table Lachesis III (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $16.79 USD ) - VPIP: 19, PFR: 16, 3B: 6, AF: 2.3, Hands: 190
Seat 2: Hero ( $9.75 USD ) - VPIP: 25, PFR: 18, 3B: 8, AF: 1.9, Hands: 52340
Seat 3: Player3 ( $9.55 USD ) - VPIP: 19, PFR: 18, 3B: 13, AF: 6.0, Hands: 77
Seat 4: Player4 ( $10.44 USD ) - VPIP: 21, PFR: 17, 3B: 10, AF: 6.5, Hands: 118
Seat 5: Player5 ( $24.40 USD ) - VPIP: 29, PFR: 24, 3B: 6, AF: 2.8, Hands: 293
Seat 6: Player6 ( $7.81 USD ) - VPIP: 29, PFR: 23, 3B: 23, AF: 2.8, Hands: 119
Hero posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
Player3 posts big blind [$0.10 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Kd Kh ]
Player4 folds
Player5 folds
Player6 folds
Player1 folds
Hero raises [$0.25 USD]
Player3 raises [$0.80 USD]
Hero raises [$2.40 USD]
Player3 calls [$1.80 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ As, 3s, 7h ]
Hero checks
Player3 checks
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3h ]
Hero checks
Player3 bets [$3.10 USD]
Hero folds
Player3 wins $3.10 USD
Player3 wins $5.16 USD from main pot

So here's the thing in these spots. If your opponent isn't aggressive then you're just better off betting small on the flop here, and folding to a raise. You aren't expecting many worse hands to call, but some might and you are protecting your equity by betting. If they are aggressive, then c/cing a street is fine. Usually most aggressive opponents won't go crazy in 4-bet pots. People play pretty straight forward in 4-bet pots, especially at these levels, so take advantage of that.

Figaroo2 · Nov 18, 2014

Get a look at this guys stats

(IPoker) €10.00 EUR NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, November 12, 11:03:28 ET 2014
Table Premium Table 16t (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( €10.00 EUR ) - VPIP: 13, PFR: 8, 3B: 4, AF: 2.6, Hands: 582
Seat 3: Player3 ( €12.93 EUR ) - VPIP: 98, PFR: 64, 3B: 73, AG% 44, Hands: 47
Seat 5: Player5 ( €12.86 EUR ) - VPIP: 30, PFR: 18, 3B: 9, AF: 3.1, Hands: 125
Seat 6: Player6 ( €12.13 EUR ) - VPIP: 16, PFR: 13, 3B: 6, AF: 3.1, Hands: 1475
Seat 8: Player8 ( €10.79 EUR ) - VPIP: 18, PFR: 10, 3B: 3, AF: 1.6, Hands: 677
Seat 10: Hero ( €10.00 EUR )
Player5 posts small blind [€0.05 EUR].
Player6 posts big blind [€0.10 EUR].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 9s 9h ]
Player8 folds
Hero raises [€0.30 EUR]
Player1 folds
Player3 raises [€0.50 EUR]
Player5 folds
Player6 folds
Hero raises [€9.70 EUR]
Player3 calls [€9.50 EUR]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7c, 6d, Ad ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5s ]
** Dealing River ** [ 7d ]
Hero wins €18.81 EUR from main pot
Player3 shows [Js, Tc ]

This manaic was just refusing to fold and just blowing people away with pure aggression so I thought, you know lets wait for something decent and just put him all in.
I'm still trying to decide if this was a tilt shove or a good situational maximum exploitation play...I wouldn't be so smug about it if id lost the hand it basically a coin flip... should we be after a little more evidence that we are in front...what do you think guys?

John A · Nov 18, 2014

I'd lean towards just 4-betting a reasonable size and then looking to have him make a mistake postlfop. I don't think the shove was horrible. He's clearly just in there looking to gamble.

I had a hand the other day against someone who was directly on my left and in a similar mode to the above guy. He was 3-betting pretty much every hand. I opened ATo, and he 3-bet, and I 4-bet for value because I knew he wasn't going to fold with anything. The flop came A 3 7 two diamonds. I c-bet and he called. The turn bricked, and I checked and he shoved and I snap called. He has 9h5h. No hand and no draw.

You just have to have a little bit of patience with these guys and also widen your value range a ton.

Fisi · Nov 19, 2014

John A said:
I'd lean towards just 4-betting a reasonable size and then looking to have him make a mistake postlfop. I don't think the shove was horrible. He's clearly just in there looking to gamble.

I had a hand the other day against someone who was directly on my left and in a similar mode to the above guy. He was 3-betting pretty much every hand. I opened ATo, and he 3-bet, and I 4-bet for value because I knew he wasn't going to fold with anything. The flop came A 3 7 two diamonds. I c-bet and he called. The turn bricked, and I checked and he shoved and I snap called. He has 9h5h. No hand and no draw.

You just have to have a little bit of patience with these guys and also widen your value range a ton.

How about if we have a hand like AQ, and the flop comes something like K78 rainbow and he calls the cbet. We have somewhere around a pot size bet left behind, or maybe a bit over. Do we check and give up, check call, or shove it ourselves here?

Or if our opponent isn't a complete maniac but still has stats around 35/30 AF% 50ish, do we give up after the flop cbet in a simmilar scenario or shove it on the turn?

John A · Nov 19, 2014

Quick workbook update: I'm putting a scoring system into the workbook and adding a few more graphics. I'm trying to get the last pieces and editing done by next week.

John A · Nov 19, 2014

Fisi said:
How about if we have a hand like AQ, and the flop comes something like K78 rainbow and he calls the cbet. We have somewhere around a pot size bet left behind, or maybe a bit over. Do we check and give up, check call, or shove it ourselves here?

Or if our opponent isn't a complete maniac but still has stats around 35/30 AF% 50ish, do we give up after the flop cbet in a simmilar scenario or shove it on the turn?

If you're talking about my example hand and not Figs, then I'm giving up on the turn. And against someone who is not a maniac I still give up in a wind tunnel. But as you know, these situations aren't static. There's tons of times I'd deviate from that based on the flop and dynamics of the game. I just got out of a game where there was a pretty aggressive decent player who got into a dynamic with another player at the table. That other player was clearly off his game and bothered based on chat comments. So I played a top pair hand much different than I normally would and stacked him because I knew he was more susceptible to a tilt call.

The problem with my hand is if you 4-bet a hand like that, against a manic you'll need to hit a hand. Against an aggressive reg, you have a little room to try and push them off a better hand. But it depends how much 3/4-betting has been going on.

Fisi · Nov 19, 2014

John A said:
Quick workbook update: I'm putting a scoring system into the workbook and adding a few more graphics. I'm trying to get the last pieces and editing done by next week.

Awesome!

Fisi · Nov 19, 2014

John A said:
If you're talking about my example hand and not Figs, then I'm giving up on the turn. And against someone who is not a maniac I still give up in a wind tunnel. But as you know, these situations aren't static. There's tons of times I'd deviate from that based on the flop and dynamics of the game. I just got out of a game where there was a pretty aggressive decent player who got into a dynamic with another player at the table. That other player was clearly off his game and bothered based on chat comments. So I played a top pair hand much different than I normally would and stacked him because I knew he was more susceptible to a tilt call.

The problem with my hand is if you 4-bet a hand like that, against a manic you'll need to hit a hand. Against an aggressive reg, you have a little room to try and push them off a better hand. But it depends how much 3/4-betting has been going on.

Thanks!

Yeah, that's why I have been keeping pots small preflop lately against maniacs oop with hands like AJ, AQ and AK and trying to hit something on the flop before investing more money because I was geting floated and played back at a ton really.

John A · Nov 20, 2014

Yeah, it's helpful that a maniacs range is wider, but they also won't fold any pair, so if they hit any piece and you have air, you're putting your money in behind. It's a little counter intuitive because having a wider range is good, but because they won't fold, unless you're willing to call it off a lot with A high, then it's better to hit a little something before investing.

Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

John A

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