Plan right now is to get 10NL back into the green. It just seems very strange that i suddenly started losing while doing exactly the same thing that i was doing when i was winning. I've heard that you can go on 50K hand downswings and be on your A- game. Dont know which applies here. Meaning dont know if i was making bad decisions or was getting coolered alot.
I know my orange line is below my green one but ,i felt like i had the best hands alot of the time. It just seems as though sets were falling into better sets and TPTK no good alot of the time cause villains would show up with monsters all too often. Really bizarre coincidences but it is what it is.
so in a nutshell, i crushed 2NL, 5 NL went ok for that tiny sample. Got slaughtered at 10NL and stopped playing 25NL while i still had a roll thankfully.
I know my orange line is below my green one but ,i felt like i had the best hands alot of the time. It just seems as though sets were falling into better sets and TPTK no good alot of the time cause villains would show up with monsters all too often. Really bizarre coincidences but it is what it is.
so in a nutshell, i crushed 2NL, 5 NL went ok for that tiny sample. Got slaughtered at 10NL and stopped playing 25NL while i still had a roll thankfully.
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Like above just analyse as many hands, you'll get a feeling if its downswing, spew or just bad play. etc 🙂
Sometimes you often playing in a session and your losing but feeling great, the next day I look and go OMG no wonder I lost *slap head*
Sometimes you often playing in a session and your losing but feeling great, the next day I look and go OMG no wonder I lost *slap head*
Thanks for posting the break results Viny.
FWIW, i know that some people go on 100k+ BE swings, not the usual but still posible.
I think you mention you change your game at some point in the thread?, that on 2nl/5nl was playing straightforward for value and want to go back to that.
On 10nl graph i see a notorious change around the 30k hand where you red line drop like freefall but your blue skyrocket which is fine in micros,
but then red line still fall but blue also fall, this could be variance + tilt/spewafter or several change of game.
On the stats part i notice a gradually change on your 3b stats that go from 4 on 2nl/5nl to 5 on 10nl/25nl, this mean you start adding hands to your 3b range which is fine, maybe you spew some there if not adapt well. But the big change i see is that you are getting more aggresive on each stake.
2nl Agg% : 35.7
5nl Agg% : 36.2
10nl Agg% : 37.7
25nl Agg% : 42.8
It means that you are 2nd barreling and raising turns or rivers a lot more than before, is it good or bad it depends on specific hands.
Did you check your stats by position?
I mean total stats are fine but by position can tell you exactly from which position are your biggest loses/leaks.
Maybe you are bleeding money on blinds or can show a leak on btn or your utg range is too wide, something that can´t be see on total stats.
Just look on your 10nl stats and look by position and see if notice something.
FWIW, i know that some people go on 100k+ BE swings, not the usual but still posible.
I think you mention you change your game at some point in the thread?, that on 2nl/5nl was playing straightforward for value and want to go back to that.
On 10nl graph i see a notorious change around the 30k hand where you red line drop like freefall but your blue skyrocket which is fine in micros,
but then red line still fall but blue also fall, this could be variance + tilt/spewafter or several change of game.
On the stats part i notice a gradually change on your 3b stats that go from 4 on 2nl/5nl to 5 on 10nl/25nl, this mean you start adding hands to your 3b range which is fine, maybe you spew some there if not adapt well. But the big change i see is that you are getting more aggresive on each stake.
2nl Agg% : 35.7
5nl Agg% : 36.2
10nl Agg% : 37.7
25nl Agg% : 42.8
It means that you are 2nd barreling and raising turns or rivers a lot more than before, is it good or bad it depends on specific hands.
Did you check your stats by position?
I mean total stats are fine but by position can tell you exactly from which position are your biggest loses/leaks.
Maybe you are bleeding money on blinds or can show a leak on btn or your utg range is too wide, something that can´t be see on total stats.
Just look on your 10nl stats and look by position and see if notice something.
Want to make a separate post for this.
I know is hard when you load this amount of hands and after that you don´t get results and end BE, is easy that screw your head and motivation.
But remember how it was before this thread, remember when you was saying "man i can´t beat 2nl, i can beat higher but not that shitty level"
Well man, you beat 2nl and 5nl now, so was not a waist for sure, you get knowledge which is important, experience, and you got a ton of good reg players posting on your thread giving you input on your gameplay.
Feel proud that you not bust your roll this time and manage to stop before, keep working on your tilt for sure and BRM which was a issue.
Best of luck man and this is a interesting thread to read, keep it going.
I know is hard when you load this amount of hands and after that you don´t get results and end BE, is easy that screw your head and motivation.
But remember how it was before this thread, remember when you was saying "man i can´t beat 2nl, i can beat higher but not that shitty level"
Well man, you beat 2nl and 5nl now, so was not a waist for sure, you get knowledge which is important, experience, and you got a ton of good reg players posting on your thread giving you input on your gameplay.
Feel proud that you not bust your roll this time and manage to stop before, keep working on your tilt for sure and BRM which was a issue.
Best of luck man and this is a interesting thread to read, keep it going.
/Logan/ said:
Yea Logan, i see what you mean and your right. Really does feel like the stuff i have gained through this thread are really something i could not have gotten any other way.
thanks for your kind words and motivation. Certainly will keep updating and trying to get better.
also in reply to your earlier post, i will be taking a look at stats by position to see if i can find anything there. Ran leakbuster for my 10NL hands and it gave me a B+ which i guess isnt totally bad. Said i should be 3betting more from the small blind and maybe barreling some turns more in certain spots.
anyways thanks again. will be updating.
Break even is good enough since you get so much from rakeback/bonuses. It was good enough for me to raise my own profits to quite a big chunk of $$$ (as you know).
Tilt/BRM stuff definitely seems like the issue but probably there are other underlying problems. I think you might need to do some work on the database and develop a fixed default preflop strategy. You can tweak it as needed based on reads etc. but I get a feeling some of the instability in your game might come from too much "play by feel" which can then get hit by tilt etc.
I must say I don't get the 10NL problem, for me 10NL was much easier and more profitable on Full Tilt (definitely the most profitable level)... of course I play FR but still, many fish play both types of game 🙂
Tilt/BRM stuff definitely seems like the issue but probably there are other underlying problems. I think you might need to do some work on the database and develop a fixed default preflop strategy. You can tweak it as needed based on reads etc. but I get a feeling some of the instability in your game might come from too much "play by feel" which can then get hit by tilt etc.
I must say I don't get the 10NL problem, for me 10NL was much easier and more profitable on Full Tilt (definitely the most profitable level)... of course I play FR but still, many fish play both types of game 🙂
vinylspiros said:
That can't be good, right? I'm not much of an online player and never used a HUD or any type poker tracking software, but I'm pretty sure you should be playing significantly more hands from late position than you do from early position. Also, I'd imagine your VPIP and PFR should be closer in early position since plays like open-limping are generally pretty awful.
Sounds like you may need to tighten up a ton in early position.
Sand basically nailed it.
As for creating preflop ranges, it's something I've actually done more than once in the past. The point of it should not be to just write down someone else's chart though (but of course this can save you money if your ranges aren't defined at all). The point should be to think about different preflop situations OFF-table, and figure out what you want your defaults to be, so that when you get into those situations that come up over and over ON-table, you'll know what to do, have an idea of how to adjust, etc.
Even though I don't follow a strict preflop range ever, I find that creating one always helps me refocus on what my preflop considerations should be, and I often find that I've either been loosening up too much in earlier positions, could be iso-ing wider, or flatting more IP. Whatever it is, I usually find something that strengthens my preflop thought process and execution.
As for creating preflop ranges, it's something I've actually done more than once in the past. The point of it should not be to just write down someone else's chart though (but of course this can save you money if your ranges aren't defined at all). The point should be to think about different preflop situations OFF-table, and figure out what you want your defaults to be, so that when you get into those situations that come up over and over ON-table, you'll know what to do, have an idea of how to adjust, etc.
Even though I don't follow a strict preflop range ever, I find that creating one always helps me refocus on what my preflop considerations should be, and I often find that I've either been loosening up too much in earlier positions, could be iso-ing wider, or flatting more IP. Whatever it is, I usually find something that strengthens my preflop thought process and execution.
I actually created my preflop range from scratch when I realized I need to do it. I used Poker Stove. Now I am really happy with it and it seems that my preflop/flop game is very good these days. Turn and river need some more work though 😛
For 6 MAX:
My 2NL positional stats (where i was winning)
My 10NL positional stats (where i am losing)
Am i positionally unaware?😕 cause if i am, it could be partially because of the zoom. Like i might not pay that much attention to position because im more focused on folding or rasing the hands i like regardless of where i am. cause its 6max zoom. Im obviously folding the junk early and maybe opening a little looser closer to the button or on it but i dont think this is reflected in my stats.
My 2NL positional stats (where i was winning)
My 10NL positional stats (where i am losing)
Am i positionally unaware?😕 cause if i am, it could be partially because of the zoom. Like i might not pay that much attention to position because im more focused on folding or rasing the hands i like regardless of where i am. cause its 6max zoom. Im obviously folding the junk early and maybe opening a little looser closer to the button or on it but i dont think this is reflected in my stats.
vinylspiros said:
Vinyl, your stats are nearly identical at every position... That's the definition of positionally unaware 🙂
And this was kind of my exact point when I was advocating playing fewer tables. To make you stop and actually think. But making preflop ranges will help. I can tell you right away that you're too loose UTG, probably too loose in MP, and you should be opening up MUCH more from the CO and BTN. SB will be more player/stake dependent, but you should probably be looser there as well. Hit me up on skype if you want some help thinking through this stuff.
Can´t really blame zoom for been positional unaware, positions are the same than reg tables, people use huds the same, you still take advantage of position (or should).
Ranges are tighter sure, but you still should open tight EP loose on BTN.
Take Scourrge offer, work on some ranges.
Ranges are tighter sure, but you still should open tight EP loose on BTN.
Take Scourrge offer, work on some ranges.
Vin you are missing tons of value on the button. You really need to look at this, you could easily be doubling the amount of hands played. If you look at John A he is playing like 52% of his button hands.
Its one of my short term goals to be a master of playing the button its the position where you have the most information and should be making the most money. So you could argue looking at your stats that this is a major issue. I know I groan when I've raised and the button calls or three bets me you just know its going to be a tough hand.
Its one of my short term goals to be a master of playing the button its the position where you have the most information and should be making the most money. So you could argue looking at your stats that this is a major issue. I know I groan when I've raised and the button calls or three bets me you just know its going to be a tough hand.
Scourrge said:
I see what you mean. WOW. I never looked at the stats by position and was totally in the dark about the fact that im not paying as much(if any) attention to position as i should be.
Not trying to defend it or anything but, i was beating 2NL for 11.11BB/100 despite the fact that my positional awareness wasn't at its best. (which kind of leads me to believe that despite not having totally balances preflop ranges, the game could still be beaten??)
Obviously im going to hit you up on skype(and thanks so much for offering to help,much appreciated) .
Figaroo2 said:
i hear ya fig. thanks bro. Will not be playing anymore poker till i straighten out some basic concepts in my head. Going to be putting a lot of thought into my game as of now. My preflop-ranges were always something i thought of rather vaguely and want to maybe have some more solid guidelines to be following. I was always a believer that regardless of what im holding , i can always make a good read post-flop and define his range well so that i don't lose too much if im behind. But it seems i gotta be tighter early and looser on CO,BUTTON. instead of just playing the hands i like and fast folding everything else like there's no tomorrow.
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/Logan/ said:
No we cant blame zoom, BUT i assure you that when we are 3-4 tabling zoom and seeing like 1k hands per hour, looking at the button is less important( ok not less important but harder to follow) than just fast folding and waiting to see a good hand. Its mostly like fold fold fold fold fold raise to me.
So if i get like TT or KQ suited and the pot is unopenned im opening it from any position.
This is whats causing the equal stat destribution by position. and THIS is where scourgges comment on cutting down tables comes in. If im playing just 2, i definitely will have time to put thought into everyhand, instead of the mechanical style im currently playing.
Multitabling does take its toll on results and A-game, no doubt.
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If you have a look at your stats in detail you will notice that probably 3/4 of your profit is made when the hand is unopened and you make the first raise. This is one area where you will be losing value playing multitable zoom/rush. If you are in co/btn with any hand in the top 50% you should wait to see if it folds round to you. Then you raise primarily to takethe blinds but if you are called then make your cbet as appropriate and you will still take it down often enough to be making profit. Its pumping a simple small +ev situation which
overtime helps your overall win rate.
As an aside...where has Blob gone? Come back Blob we need your input...
overtime helps your overall win rate.
As an aside...where has Blob gone? Come back Blob we need your input...
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