Would you do the same?

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Game # 1: $100 buy-in, $1-$2 NLHE, my first hand.
Villain pushes all-in pre-flop, with KK in position, would you call your entire stack?

Game # 2: $200 buy-in, $1-$2 NLHE, also my first hand.
With 99 pre-flop and the flop gives you top set, would you push all-in If first to act?

I will post my results after, if I get some replies.
 
I take it these are live games?

1. Yes, readless snap.
2. No
 
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game 1 : i would not call, there is plenty of game left, why take a chance and be out first hand?
game 2: here i would likely raise 3 x pot, probably get the same result of everyone folding.
 
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Both games took place at my local casino, noting that this was after I retired from dealing at the same casino.
 
1. Snap call- if you think about folding the 2nd best hand preflop, you should just quit poker and go try something else...
2. Definitely NO- nowadays you want to Cbet small with your weak hands and to balance it- you want to Cbet small with your top hands too(like in this case top set)
 
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Game 1: I'm kinda crazy, I'd go all in, both online and in the poker house
Game 2: No, I've lost several times
 
I think folding KK there is insane, ... if he's got AA oh well he's got it gg bud

..... top set, no I don't want to scare anyone out, come on in the water's fine,

would help to know board texture and all info but generally speaking👍
 
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This hands are from live Cash Games not MTTs... I think some members don't read the post entirely before replying...

I'll write a bit more, especially for the KK hand- there are situations when you fold KK(even AA), but mostly post flop... preflop you just have to go with it if you take poker seriously- you shouldn't let the fear of potentially losing your entire stack affect your decision... similar in the 2nd hand, amazing flop for our hand(top set) and you don't want to just pick up the pot right there just because a bad card might come on the turn(there might be exceptions where the action preflop was insane and you're left with around a pot size left but this is rare with 100 BBs stacks...)
 
enno said:
Game # 1: $100 buy-in, $1-$2 NLHE, my first hand.
Villain pushes all-in pre-flop, with KK in position, would you call your entire stack?

Game # 2: $200 buy-in, $1-$2 NLHE, also my first hand.
With 99 pre-flop and the flop gives you top set, would you push all-in If first to act?

I will post my results after, if I get some replies.
Click to expand...
#1 NEVER folding EVER
It's possible they have AA & I've actually done something similar while online on a ZOOM table but more where I'll just 3Bet allin but it's rare and only 'for a reason' (as an adjustment vs. certain villain who I feel will call off stacks with mid pr's and AQo+)... < this is not something I'd do often, but more of a 1 off thing ... very rarely
Yah so if villain is open shoving 50bb's effective with AA they are basically terrible.

#2 I'm 100bb's deep, I flop Top set... but I don't know what happened preflop, I don't know how many players are in the hand (on this flop), I have no idea of the board texture, how deep are effective stacks?
Pretty sure I'm never just going to push all-in on the flop if first to act. This sounds more like 'playing to not lose' vs. 'playing to win' or playing to maximize ev.
If action goes in some manner where I'm able to get stacks in on a flop when I'm holding Top set, I am always going to get it in.
When I play Cash games I'm looking to rebuy regularly if I'm in a good situation. ie. while playing online I'm always replenishing stack to 100bb's and if I feel I'm playing good & have an edge, I'll keep on going even if I've lost 10 buyins. (If it's causing me to tilt after getting donked & coolered repeatedly I will stop for a bit but most times I'm not tilting over this)
 
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Scenario one call all-in.
Scenario two, I might want to check…if you go all-in, chances are you only get the chips already bet…if you make a 3 or 4x raise, same results most likely…if you want to maximize your gains, it might be worth a check/raise, but it is more of a gamble.
 
1. Can you afford it? How many buy-ins do you work with? I'm never a fan of ripping it preflop. You may be seeing a 8% chance against AA and 88% if you have a higher pair. Variance could make you lucky or unlucky. After all said and done lets just say your KK is 50%. I'm starting to realize preflop all-in's are how desperate people play. Nothing is safe really. If you can afford a $100 swing I would say call, but otherwise better safe than sorry.

2. I wouldn't go all-in as I would want some more value than to chase everyone away. On the other hand; is the flop monotone or could there be any straight draws? If you check or bet small you may have an opponent call with any draws. Bet at least 3x BB, but prepare for callers hoping to get lucky. 5x or more and your most likely just going to get a bunch of folds.
 
Hand 1: Fist pump snap call

Hand 2: I don't think there's a situation where we jam flop as first to act in a deep stacked cash game, but more information like preflop action, stack sizes and the flop texture would be required to lead you towards a good answer in your situation.

85champ07 said:
1. Can you afford it? How many buy-ins do you work with? I'm never a fan of ripping it preflop. You may be seeing a 8% chance against AA and 88% if you have a higher pair. Variance could make you lucky or unlucky. After all said and done lets just say your KK is 50%. I'm starting to realize preflop all-in's are how desperate people play. Nothing is safe really. If you can afford a $100 swing I would say call, but otherwise better safe than sorry.
Click to expand...

AA is about a 80/20 vs KK depending on suits when things get in preflop.

If you're worried about losing money in a hand you're playing too high. You should be playing at a buy in level where you're only focused on making the highest EV decision, not about losing money in an individual hand. ( I like live, I know I beat the games but I can't afford the ups and downs so I don't play... I don't play and make bad decisions at the poker table because I'm trying to protect money I can't afford to lose in the first case.)

GL

EDS
 
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enno said:
Game # 1: $100 buy-in, $1-$2 NLHE, my first hand.
Villain pushes all-in pre-flop, with KK in position, would you call your entire stack?

Game # 2: $200 buy-in, $1-$2 NLHE, also my first hand.
With 99 pre-flop and the flop gives you top set, would you push all-in If first to act?

I will post my results after, if I get some replies.
Click to expand...
game 1 = I wouldn't go all in with all my chips, especially when it's the first hand of the tournament, the effective stack belongs to the villain and he usually always wins the first hand.
game 2= With the top set, I would go all in, but only after seeing the turn and bluffing the villain to put more chips on the table
 
1) most probably the villain have Ax. There is a chance we can lose. So fold.

2) It depends, if it's a suited flop you are dead. If its a flush draw or OESD than you have to be cautious because fishes go all in.
if its a disconnected rainbow, you can go all in but most probably you collect blinds(it works in tourney when you are deep because blinds are high). So I prefer 3-bet 🙂
 
I forgot to mention that these games were cash games, not tournaments. Also in game 2 there were 2 other players who saw the flop so it was a decent pot.
 
Bhargav said:
1) most probably the villain have Ax. There is a chance we can lose. So fold.


So let's say the villain does have Ax
Click to expand...
Umm... why would we assume the villain has Ax?
But let's just randomly say they did... because you say they probably have Ax. Knowing that KK is a huge favorite over Ax you're still going to fold because there's a chance you can lose? Newsflash, there's a chance we can lose vs. 72o... so do we fold vs. that hand too?

If we're folding vs. a presumed Ax hand, what hands are we actually calling against and does villain ever even have those hands? (or mostly Ax?)
 
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nelomec said:
game 1 = I wouldn't go all in with all my chips, especially when it's the first hand of the tournament, the effective stack belongs to the villain and he usually always wins the first hand.
Click to expand...
It's not a tournament
Why does the 'effective stack belong to the villain'? We don't even know how many chips villain has in this spot so how can we assume they are the effective stack? And if by chance they were the effective stack, why would they usually win that first hand?
 
Poker Orifice said:
Umm... why would we assume the villain has Ax?
But let's just randomly say they did... because you say they probably have Ax. Knowing that KK is a huge favorite over Ax you're still going to fold because there's a chance you can lose? Newsflash, there's a chance we can lose vs. 72o... so do we fold vs. that hand too?

If we're folding vs. a presumed Ax hand, what hands are we actually calling against and does villain ever even have those hands? (or mostly Ax?)
Click to expand...
If we have the cash reserves for multiple buy-in , we can go all in. Be aggressive.

I am a conservative player, I will fold anything except AA if that is the first game(my opinion). Generally we assume the worst case scenario. (I think my sentence framing wasn't correct.) I am not saying KK is bad, in that situation I don't like it. Yes in poker anything can happen, we are not 100% sure that AA wins. Just the probability.

I had more losses with AA & KK than JJ. That's poker.
 
OK my apologies for not giving enough information on these games, both cash games at my local casino.
In game # 1, villain had more chips than I did, so when I called I was covered. There was only two of us in the pot and when he turned AA, obviously I had lost my entire buyin of $100. TBSS for me.
In game # 2, again my opponent had me covered, and when showing the cards he had TT. The turn didn’t help but
on the river, guess what, he hit a two outer and won with TTT over my 999. Another loss but this time $200.

These hands were early when I started playing poker in cash games, but now I feel I made two huge mistakes.
Now I feel:
In game # 1
I should have folded because I could lose my entire stack and could have played for a longer period of time.
In game # 2
I should have made a Cbet and if called, realizing that my opponent could have me beat.
Now I would like to know what you would do on the turn and river in thins situation.
 
Game #2, value-betting!
We are playing to win.... not playing to 'not lose'
 
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Game 1, with KK and facing an all-in preflop, I’d call it, especially if the player seems aggressive. With such a strong hand, it’s a tough spot, but I’d go for it.

Game 2, having 99 and hitting a set on the flop, I’d probably go all-in, especially if no one else has raised. It’s a great opportunity to capitalize on that strong hand.
 
JustinPieper said:
Game 1, with KK and facing an all-in preflop, I’d call it, especially if the player seems aggressive. With such a strong hand, it’s a tough spot, but I’d go for it.

Game 2, having 99 and hitting a set on the flop, I’d probably go all-in, especially if no one else has raised. It’s a great opportunity to capitalize on that strong hand.
Click to expand...
As I mentioned, I did the same as you, and lost both times ( huge mistakes? )
 
enno said:
As I mentioned, I did the same as you, and lost both times ( huge mistakes? )
Click to expand...

How could this be a mistake?
What if I got it allin preflop with AA, got called by 72s and he hit a running flush? Mistake? I know it's an extreme example but in poker we are trying to maximize our wins & on cash games it's all above + Chip EV (because we don't have our tournament life at stake and there's no graduated payouts once ITM). We are looking to make the best possible decisions at each given moment. Move away from 'results-oriented' thinking and instead work on making best decisions with the info. we have at the time.
 
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