Article: Should California Legalize Internet Poker?

juiceeQ said:

Amen. Don't forget yearly vehicle licensing fees (basically a tax).

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yea, I mainly left that out because every state is extremely different, not as much federal.

Well, you know, I live in CA, so we're taxed for everything.

Gunner57 said:

Oz I agree with everything you said however I am afraid that when it comes down to the US government they will screw it up. I fear that they will tax online poker to the point where for everyday people will not be able to grind out a small profit for their hobby or that their hobby will not loose them money directly but will raise their tax rate costing them thousands... So at that point does it make sense to play online or to go underground and play live home games?

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Maybe. Or maybe you'll get a whole load of new fish coming to the game that couldn't be bothered negotiating the cloak-and-dagger routine required to get money onto a site in the past. Plus people have been beating B&M poker games for years despite the high extra costs and tax / licensing fees / etc that are built into it.

I'm just saying if you want to play internet poker at all in the future this is probably your best bet.

juiceeQ said:

Well, you know, I live in CA, so we're taxed for everything.

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And I live in Illinois, so ditto

In California.

I am gonna call this the Hustler notion. Could have called it the Bicycle notion, or the Commerce notion, or the Hollywood Park notion, etc etc.

The state should IMHO, allow all existing California casinos to provide, online, all the games the casino currently offers to live players. There should be a limit as to how far away (zip code based perhaps) a new players account address can be. The notion here is that the casino that benefits is actually close enough to drive in less than a set period of time (hour, 1/2 day/day). So for instance I, in So.Cal, could not sign up at Harrah's Tahoe and play regularly. I could, as part of a vacation, play the Harrahs Tahoe, from a Tahoe local ISP (hotel, motel, rented property...)

This notion goes further by allowing the casino to associate with world-wide poker networks. In this case the Hustler (or Bicycle, or Hawaiian Gardens...) could decide to allow Stars to provide the software, and player pool for its online players.

The BIG difference would be that each new online account would have to be opened by a LIVE PLAYER IN THE CASINO! You would have to go there to open your account. Proof would be determined at that time that you are who you say you are, and live where you say you live. This should prevent underage players. This will bring a ton of live bodies into the Casinos. They will love this even if these bodies are there only to deposit. Most will drop a dime or 2 while in the lines to register.

Cash-outs would work the same. No checks in the mail, no e-xfers. You would have to show up at the same casino you signed up at to collect.

In a case like So.Cal, where I have maybe 5-10 Card Rooms/Casinos within 2 hours drive, I could sign up at multiple Casinos.

The Casinos would pay a bear min registration/regulation fee to the state, but would treat each online player as if he were playing live in casino. Same Income Tax structure, and some bookkeeping ability to provide each player with a year to year account to offset loses vs winnings.

The state would provide the mechanism to verify fairness, provide recourse, and regulate that both sides are represented factually, fairly and honestly in as transparent a manner as possible.

Truth here is that software would provide most of the grunt work, and there would be no necessary army of online poker Room Regulators. The fees could be minimal, and the State benefits by increasing the income taxes recovered from players, as well as the taxes on the Casino itself.

end

Keys things here IMHO are;

-Live registration and cash-outs,
-World Wide player Pool,
-State Income Taxes and Bis taxes increased.

juiceeQ said:

Well, you know, I live in CA, so we're taxed for everything.

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LOL! Don't forget about the "crash tax". Those wonderful California cities that tax you if you are from out of the area but get into an automobile accident within their city limits.

No folks, I'm not making this up!

PurgatoryD said:

LOL! Don't forget about the "crash tax". Those wonderful California cities that tax you if you are from out of the area but get into an automobile accident within their city limits.

No folks, I'm not making this up!

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Wow. Whats next? Vacationing families broken arm tax? Skinned knee tax? Is there a sliding scale as far as age? Like a 5 year old gets hit with a 4% if knee is skinned, but 7% if an elbow is also involved, but for a 10 year old this is at 5 and 8%?

fletchdad said:

Vacationing families broken arm tax?

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LOL! While that certainly sounds funny enough, please don't let any California state or city leaders catch wind of your idea... they just might implement it!

PurgatoryD said:

LOL! Don't forget about the "crash tax". Those wonderful California cities that tax you if you are from out of the area but get into an automobile accident within their city limits.

No folks, I'm not making this up!

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That was Sacramento, wasn't it? I thought that got shot down (I hope)?

juiceeQ said:

That was Sacramento, wasn't it? I thought that got shot down (I hope)?

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Roseville had it and repealed it. Sac is thinking about it but still has it. Woodland is threatening to double theirs if Sac doesn't end theirs.

Let's face it: The big push for state-sanctioned online gambling reeks of decay and decline. The arguments in its favor could be made for state-sanctioned prostitution, heroin sales, child porn sites – any number of human vices that might generate revenue for the state.

Errr....come again?

How can someone so totally ignorant be given a voice? OK, so you're against online poker (or gambling). Not a problem, your right to oppose it is entirely yours, but to make a claim so laughable as to be completely offensive needs to be addressed. I hope those of you in California write to complain about this.

Sorry, I hope my post makes sense. Was so enraged by this article that I got my prostitute to hook me up with some heroin, you know, cos that's what we do.

I hear that bees are dying out!

Government, in my view, should stay out of facilitating, legitimating and becoming dependent on revenue from activities that cause demonstrable harm to large numbers of individuals and communities.

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I agree - but when have governments ever done that!

juiceeQ said:

That was Sacramento, wasn't it? I thought that got shot down (I hope)?

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Stick66 said:

Roseville had it and repealed it. Sac is thinking about it but still has it. Woodland is threatening to double theirs if Sac doesn't end theirs.

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Roseville had it, then Sacramento got it, then Roseville repealed it, and then Sacramento (very recently) repealed it.

Yeah, and as Stick mentioned, I think Yolo County threatened to charge only residents of the City of Sacramento for accidents in retaliation.

LOL! What a joke. Thankfully, due to the negative publicity, a lot of cities that had planned to implement the tax are reversing course. I don't know which other cities still have it, but I'm glad the greater Sacramento area is clear of it.

So maybe they'll try again with the "snack tax". Anyone remember that beauty before it was finally repealed?

PurgatoryD said:

Roseville had it, then Sacramento got it, then Roseville repealed it, and then Sacramento (very recently) repealed it.

Yeah, and as Stick mentioned, I think Yolo County threatened to charge only residents of the City of Sacramento for accidents in retaliation.

LOL! What a joke. Thankfully, due to the negative publicity, a lot of cities that had planned to implement the tax are reversing course. I don't know which other cities still have it, but I'm glad the greater Sacramento area is clear of it.

So maybe they'll try again with the "snack tax". Anyone remember that beauty before it was finally repealed?

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Oh lord, don't remind me! Seriously, this state is so f'd up. If I didn't love it here (as far as climate/environment), and I had a little more means to do so, I would seriously consider moving. You live in the Sac area PD?

One way to prevent overspending would be to eliminate the ability to use credit cards for gambling. Only allow prepaid or debit cards.

That's one of the reasons cc charges for gambling are coded differently and the fees are higher because of the potential for the person using them to cancel the charge. It's a "risk" charge.

Casinos would hate that though as would underfunded gamblers.

juiceeQ said:

If I didn't love it here (as far as climate/environment)

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Yeah, that's the rub, isn't it? And that's why they get away with it! I'm not leaving either. It's a beautiful place in so many ways. Besides, it is kind of amusing watching all the new taxes that they dream up. I think a "soda tax" is next. Only it includes sports drinks as well. And zero calorie drinks. We're "fighting obesity" by taxing zero calorie drinks. LOL! See what I mean? You could never come up with that on your own! Good fun.

juiceeQ said:

You live in the Sac area PD?

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Yeah, I'm in the Roseville area. My wife and I moved to the sac area about 15 years ago. We love it. And we especially enjoy the American River Parkway.

How about you?

PurgatoryD said:

Yeah, that's the rub, isn't it? And that's why they get away with it! I'm not leaving either. It's a beautiful place in so many ways. Besides, it is kind of amusing watching all the new taxes that they dream up. I think a "soda tax" is next. Only it includes sports drinks as well. And zero calorie drinks. We're "fighting obesity" by taxing zero calorie drinks. LOL! See what I mean? You could never come up with that on your own! Good fun.

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Yeah I know, it's insane. What about the plastic grocery bag tax, or forcing soda manufacturers to print the calories on the front of the can (man, it sure was hard turning it over to the back to read it ), which I'm sure translates to higher prices in the store.

PurgatoryD said:

Yeah, I'm in the Roseville area. My wife and I moved to the sac area about 15 years ago. We love it. And we especially enjoy the American River Parkway.

How about you?

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Ah, great area. Used to live in Rancho Cordova s, but one of the perks was being so close to the parkway. I could walk to the American River from my house. Now we live up in Amador County. Which I love. Great small town atmosphere in the whole county, and a great place to raise your kids. Of course, if we want to do any real shopping, we still have to drive down to Folsom or Sac.

juiceeQ said:

or forcing soda manufacturers to print the calories on the front of the can (man, it sure was hard turning it over to the back to read it )

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LOL! I didn't know that was an actual requirement. I saw a soda can or bottle the other day with "140 calories per serving" printed on the front. I remember thinking, "Out of a 2,500 daily allotment, that's not too bad!" LOL! Maybe it's not having the desired affect after all. These kinds of things rarely do.

We could probably go on forever because there's new material each and every day. Consider these two headlines from today's paper:

* Chief executives say California worst place in the nation to do business
* Bill allowing college aid for illegal immigrants passes Assembly

LOL! You really couldn't come up with this stuff if you wanted!

juiceeQ said:

Used to live in Rancho Cordova s, but one of the perks was being so close to the parkway. I could walk to the American River from my house.

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That is a huge perk! I ride from Sacramento Bar near Sunrise past Hagan Park and beyond. That's such a beautiful part of the parkway. I don't understand why Rancho doesn't have better housing options along there. They would be swimming in tax revenue. Talk about location!

Are you familiar with the Sun River area? That's the one neighborhood on our list in Rancho. We won't move south of Hwy 50, so there's not much else there. Sure, people poke fun at Rancho, but I'm not too fond of Gold River. Across the river, Carmichael and Old Fair Oaks are on our list. But I think we're going to end up out in Folsom or El Dorado Hills. We like some of the newer construction (past 8 years), so it's leading us out that way. Still, if we can find a nice home along the river that isn't a fortune (which most are), we're there!

juiceeQ said:

Now we live up in Amador County. Which I love. Great small town atmosphere in the whole county, and a great place to raise your kids. Of course, if we want to do any real shopping, we still have to drive down to Folsom or Sac.

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I've been out that way. My wife and I attended a wedding there and thought it was beautiful. Yeah, small town can be great for kids in a lot of ways. Also, I imagine you get a lot more for your money out there. But yes, that is out there! I don't know if you shop at the Folsom Costco, but if so, how long does it take to make that trip?

LOL, another Sacramento area card player on CC! Maybe if we end up with a state poker network, it won't be so bad after all!

PurgatoryD said:

Yeah, I'm in the Roseville area.

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Howdy, neighbor. I'm in Roseville, too.

Yep, we go to the Folsom Costco. It takes a little over 30 minutes to get there, by way of Latrobe Rd. over to Hwy. 50. They always look at us like we're crazy, because we do a month's worth of shopping when we go, so end up with two full carts.

Never have tried out any of the card rooms in the Sac area. I used to live about 15 minutes away for the Jackson Rancheria (now about 25 minutes away). Don't know if you've ever played there, but they have a pretty decent poker room, and it's a nice drive. Haven't been out there for awhile though. Hmmm...maybe I know what I want to do for Mother's Day! lol

Stick66 said:

Howdy, neighbor. I'm in Roseville, too.

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Very cool! That California poker is looking better and better! Do you ever play any live games around here? I haven't checked out the new card room at Thunder Valley yet. I need some more online practice before I give them a try.

juiceeQ said:

Yep, we go to the Folsom Costco. It takes a little over 30 minutes to get there, by way of Latrobe Rd. over to Hwy. 50.

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LOL! Small world, I used to work in one of those business parks off Latrobe. 30 minutes isn't far at all. As long as you don't need to get into sac for a job or something, you're fine.

Well, nice to know a couple of poker players in the area. If we do end up with intrastate online poker, at least I'll know a couple of CC players!

-Dave

I've actually met Stick a couple times in Reno at some CC gatherings. Maybe one of these times we can see who else is around and get together for a game somewhere.
Edit: Oh yeah, I remember when those business parks, and the one gas station just outside of EDH was the ONLY thing out there.

juiceeQ said:

I've actually met Stick a couple times in Reno at some CC gatherings.

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Oh that's cool. I'll have to keep my eyes open for that. Traveling to play poker is the coolest thing ever.

juiceeQ said:

Maybe one of these times we can see who else is around and get together for a game somewhere.

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That would be cool too. I just need to get some more online practice in first. I stopped playing cold turkey for about a year or so, and then played all of four or five CC freerolls before everything hit the fan.

juiceeQ said:

Oh yeah, I remember when those business parks, and the one gas station just outside of EDH was the ONLY thing out there.

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LOL! Yeah, that place was a no man's land! Then they adding shopping centers, that Blue Cross Health facility, widened the freeway, improved the exit, built homes. They even dug away what seemed like half the hillside to put in a Mercedes dealership. Oh man, it looks so different now. Well, I haven't been out that way in a while. But it was looking very different the last time I saw it.

PurgatoryD said:

Do you ever play any live games around here? I haven't checked out the new card room at Thunder Valley yet. I need some more online practice before I give them a try.

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Haven't tried live rooms around here yet. Just Reno & Vegas. I was gonna give T Valley a shot soon. I'll post when I do. Might try Lucky Derby off Greenback, too.

pokerman27 said:

Sorry, I hope my post makes sense. Was so enraged by this article that I got my Under-age prostitute to hook me up with some heroin, you know, cos that's what we do.

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FYP.
But seriously though, the only reason the government stepped in is because they believe they should get a piece of the pie