The best poker player ever?

salim271 · Aug 24, 2010

Undeniably I would have to say Stu Ungar, even though I'm not sure how developed he was in games other than hold'em. He's the only player to have won the main event 3 times... its really sad that he never got to even see the poker boom, I think he would have mopped the floor with the dead money, maybe even made enough at once that even he couldnt gamble/give it away...

The%20Rise%20and%20Fall%20of%20Stu%20Ungar.jpg

madtom1337 · Aug 24, 2010

Omg, I forgot about that guy. Would LOVE it if he wasn't dead, lol. Yeah, I think you're right, man. I mean I was obviously going to say Phil Ivey. Well, I don't think I was going to actually bother posting it because about 10 other people will probably follow being like "ZOMG PHIL IVEY" so yeah. From what I've read about Ungar though, he seemed to absolutely kill it as far as cardplaying goes. Seemed like a bit of a Rain Man type.

salim271 · Aug 24, 2010

madtom1337 said:
Omg, I forgot about that guy. Would LOVE it if he wasn't dead, lol. Yeah, I think you're right, man. I mean I was obviously going to say Phil Ivey. Well, I don't think I was going to actually bother posting it because about 10 other people will probably follow being like "ZOMG PHIL IVEY" so yeah. From what I've read about Ungar though, he seemed to absolutely kill it as far as cardplaying goes. Seemed like a bit of a Rain Man type.

At this moment and time, I have to say the best poker player in the world today would be Phil Ivey... and really we'll never know how Stu would have done in today's poker world, but his table image was aggressive and controlling, he played hands that were unprofitable and turned profit doing it, you look at pros like Phil Ivey, Durrr, Gus Hansen and Daniel Negreanu, it's like you can see how Stu Ungar was described in their play.

cAPSLOCK · Aug 24, 2010

A friend of mine is engaged to be married to Stu's daughter Stephanie.

Sixes Full · Aug 24, 2010

That is a difficult question. Do you mean to ask "The best known pro poker player of all time?"

If so, I will have to say Doyle. He is versed on any and all games and was a hustler from way back when. He has advanced with the times and even admits SS is outdated to todays standard of aggressive play. He also still plays some of the worlds highest limit mixed games and wins.

I dont know much about Stu other than that sub par movie High Roller, but what he did was pretty amazing.

As far as the best poker player player ever, well that would be me.

Mr Whatever · Aug 24, 2010

stu was awesome no doubt about it, but for me he didnt do it for a really long time. a decade? maybe a little more. and the sad thing about it was he mostly lost everything that he had.

for just talent wise and forgot about him losing most of what he won, if i were to compare him to a baseball player id compare him to a albert belle or a dwight gooden figure. dominated the scene but just something held him back like not being there long enough or personal problems.

i like johnny moss myself as a one of the greatest. won in wsop tourns, his peers thought him the best and the cash game stories of him during the 1950s. . . . .priceless.

yeah johnny moss.

AntiKhrist · Aug 24, 2010

I'm going to have to agree with Stu Unger! Really tragic story though.

If you've never seen the movie about him, check it out!

nc_royals · Aug 24, 2010

Ill vote for Ivey. IMO Every bit as good as Stu withouth all the demons. I dont think you'll read about Phil being broke in 10 years or anything.

madtom1337 · Aug 24, 2010

Ah, just as I predicted.

Lol

tetleyboy · Aug 24, 2010

Phil Hellmuth told me it was him........

dmorris68 · Aug 24, 2010

I'm thinking Ivey would be rolling over Stu today.

I've heard a lot of Stuey's friends from back in the day -- Mike Sexton, Billy Baxter, Danny Robison -- say that while Stuey would absolutely love the action available 24/7 today, he most likely wouldn't have adapted to it well enough to play at the level he did then. I'm sure he'd still be a force, but according to them, most likely not to the level of Ivey or Dwan. Especially Ivey who is an all-around great player. Stuey's primary poker game was NLHE and he didn't do well in other poker games.

However to a person they all agree that to this day there has never been a better gin player, and probably never will be since gin is almost dead as an action game, compared to Stu's early days. He was a gin machine, virtually unbeatable -- he had to give up so many spots to his opponents just to get them to play, and even with the handicap he just steamrolled everyone.

salim271 · Aug 24, 2010

dmorris68 said:
I'm thinking Ivey would be rolling over Stu today.

I've heard a lot of Stuey's friends from back in the day -- Mike Sexton, Billy Baxter, Danny Robison -- say that while Stuey would absolutely love the action available 24/7 today, he most likely wouldn't have adapted to it well enough to play at the level he did then. I'm sure he'd still be a force, but according to them, most likely not to the level of Ivey or Dwan. Especially Ivey who is an all-around great player. Stuey's primary poker game was NLHE and he didn't do well in other poker games.

However to a person they all agree that to this day there has never been a better gin player, and probably never will be since gin is almost dead as an action game, compared to Stu's early days. He was a gin machine, virtually unbeatable -- he had to give up so many spots to his opponents just to get them to play, and even with the handicap he just steamrolled everyone.

I think that Stu would have been able to play with Durrr and Ivey if he had gotten clean... he was very good at adapting and changing his game, but played terrible when he was high or coming off a binge. But really its all up for debate, the saddest thing is that we'll never really know... :/

belerophon · Aug 24, 2010

Zomg! Phil Ivey !11!!

ckickenking · Aug 24, 2010

Phil Ivey

No Doubt, It Phil Ivey to today standard. Ain't no way to compare him to a player from the past. How could we, right.

Daniel72 · Aug 24, 2010

For Stu Ungar it was easier to outplay his opponents at his time. His aggrostyle was very new for his opponents.
I think Phil Ivey is the best poker player of all time, not the other Phil

(Hellmouth with his 11 bracelets)

THeGaME41 · Aug 25, 2010

From what i've seen probably Phil Ivey. But yeah im fairly new to poker.

alaskabill · Aug 31, 2010

I had to dig this thread up. Debates like this are fun. Of course its not really possible to fairly compare players from different eras but here's my two cents:

I read the book "One of a Kind" about Stu Ungar and came away amazed. Ungar was a true genius. He was a tragically messed up person but a mental freak of nature and a total action junkie. I can picture him, if he were alive, playing the nosebleeds on FT with Durr, Ivey and the rest. It might take him a bit to adapt to the newer players but I think that in the end he would be a winner. The Kid gets my vote for best ever.

WiZZiM · Aug 31, 2010

chip reece was the ultimate professional. Ivey will probably surpass him, but he has a lifetime to play yet, so who knows. He might do a tiger woods on us...

OzExorcist · Aug 31, 2010

ZOMG PHIL IVEY OBV$!~!!

Honestly, it really depends on how you choose to classify the "best". For my money, to be the best you've got to be able to play all the games and be just as good away from the table as you are at it.

As has been pointed out above, Ungar specialised in just a few games and while he may have been godly in them while he was at the table (and could have fared even better today given the way NL has grown) his life away from the table, sadly, wasn't the same.

Someone like Ivey, on the other hand, is the complete package. Same goes for the likes of Chip Reese, Barry Greenstein, Jennifer Harman and Doyle Brunson.

ukaliks · Aug 31, 2010

Phil Ivey will win more and more bracelets in the future so it has to b him?

madtom1337 · Aug 31, 2010

cAPSLOCK said:
A friend of mine is engaged to be married to Stu's daughter Stephanie.

Woah, maybe they can have babies and they'll all become poker gods... But yeah, she's pretty hawt...

MrPokerVerse · Aug 31, 2010

Stu's game was gin rummy, no one better there. If question was stated "best card player", he would win hands down. To be able to win at poker without a lot of experience playing is impressive. Being the best at poker he is probably right there with the best of them.

I'm giving a top five:

1. Phil Ivey
2. Stu Ungar
3. Johnny Moss
4. Doyle Brunson
5. Johnny Chan

salim271 · Aug 31, 2010

alaskabill said:
I had to dig this thread up. Debates like this are fun. Of course its not really possible to fairly compare players from different eras but here's my two cents:

I read the book "One of a Kind" about Stu Ungar and came away amazed. Ungar was a true genius. He was a tragically messed up person but a mental freak of nature and a total action junkie. I can picture him, if he were alive, playing the nosebleeds on FT with Durr, Ivey and the rest. It might take him a bit to adapt to the newer players but I think that in the end he would be a winner. The Kid gets my vote for best ever.

Imo if Ivey is the Tiger Woods of Poker, then Stu Ungar is Van Gogh, who could paint some of the most beautiful art of all time but who's life was miserable, he took his own life at 37, as he suffered from mental disorders such as severe depression.

madtom1337 · Aug 31, 2010

MrPokerVerse said:
Stu's game was gin rummy, no one better there. If question was stated "best card player", he would win hands down. To be able to win at poker without a lot of experience playing is impressive. Being the best at poker he is probably right there with the best of them.

I'm giving a top five:

1. Phil Ivey
2. Stu Ungar
3. Johnny Moss
4. Doyle Brunson
5. Johnny Chan

Where's Dwan? And who's Johnny Moss anyway? And Chan's mainly a donkament player, right?

The PoolBoy · Aug 31, 2010

" The Kid"............not Kid Poker

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