Bigger stack matter?

john_entony · Aug 5, 2023

Here's a theory. Usually, those players who have a bigger stack than others win more often. It doesn't matter what cards they have.... the main thing is that their stack is just bigger than yours. So I'm wondering: how often have you noticed how a player with the biggest stack beats 4-5 players with a small stack, but who have much stronger cards (assuming all players go all-in pre-flop)?

ninocabral · Aug 5, 2023

this does not exist, regardless of the size of your stack you will win if your hand is the strongest, what could be happening is a negative variance for you at the moment, that's all

MikeCarasone · Aug 5, 2023

Often the bigger stack has the ability to play looser and open upmhis ranges in order to use his bigger stack to his ad and pick up more chips by being aggressive.
obv having the chips to attack are important and gives you the opportunity to bluff more. This doesn’t mean the bigger stack is always bluffing but as a smaller stack with a hand they can be more confident when they get raised by the bigger stack that’s playing loosely.

PupsikCat · Aug 5, 2023

of course a big stack or even the chip leader of the table can put pressure on the bubble of shorties with a very large range of hands!

ginwilly · Aug 5, 2023

I think he means in all in pre flop situations it seems to favor the big stack no matter the holdings.

It's conspiracy theory stuff about the rng that I've heard before. I honestly don't know how some rngs are set up so my best guess would be probably not.

pentazepam · Aug 5, 2023

john_entony said:
It doesn't matter what cards they have....

So you always win when you have a big stack. Or does this miracle only happen to other players?

juan1579 · Aug 5, 2023

Having a large number of chips helps you put more pressure on the table and win jackpots more easily

john_entony · Aug 5, 2023

pentazepam said:
So you always win when you have a big stack. Or does this miracle only happen to other players?

This also applies to me. When I'm the chip leader, I can call 4-5 all-in with "83" or "102" and very often I win in a row. And, similarly, when I play with "1010"... "KK" - I lose to the trash cards of my opponent who has more chips.

ph_il · Aug 5, 2023

this is result oriented thinking and has nothing to do with stack sizes, except for the fact that bigger stacks are at less risk to bust compared to smaller stacks.

just because you've won with bad hands as a big stack and lost with good hands as a short stack doesn't mean anything except equity and variance is a factor. plus, you probably don't even have a large enough sample size to make this argument and likely have selected memory when things did/didn't work out.

all this does is set you up to make losing decisions in the long run because you're basing your decisions off of short results and not +ev long term value. run the 83 hand vs 4-5 all is, based on your preflop equity, over 1000+ sample size, and you'll see it's a long term losing play, even though it'll win a small percentage of the time.

Vladqt · Aug 6, 2023

noticed that the smaller the stack, the fewer mistakes I make in the game

R.Holynskyi · Aug 6, 2023

john_entony said:
Here's a theory. Usually, those players who have a bigger stack than others win more often. It doesn't matter what cards they have.... the main thing is that their stack is just bigger than yours. So I'm wondering: how often have you noticed how a player with the biggest stack beats 4-5 players with a small stack, but who have much stronger cards (assuming all players go all-in pre-flop)?

Such situations happen quite often. The player with the biggest stack at the table has an advantage over others because he can afford to risk more than others. In my opinion, it's all about luck.

iceheart888 · Aug 6, 2023

john_entony said:
Here's a theory. Usually, those players who have a bigger stack than others win more often. It doesn't matter what cards they have.... the main thing is that their stack is just bigger than yours. So I'm wondering: how often have you noticed how a player with the biggest stack beats 4-5 players with a small stack, but who have much stronger cards (assuming all players go all-in pre-flop)?

It is normal for big stacks to abuse the table. You take notes on the players depending on how they play (position, if they isolate with all in and how they play in relation to the stacks close to them).

john_entony · Aug 6, 2023

ph_il said:
this is result oriented thinking and has nothing to do with stack sizes, except for the fact that bigger stacks are at less risk to bust compared to smaller stacks.

just because you've won with bad hands as a big stack and lost with good hands as a short stack doesn't mean anything except equity and variance is a factor. plus, you probably don't even have a large enough sample size to make this argument and likely have selected memory when things did/didn't work out.

all this does is set you up to make losing decisions in the long run because you're basing your decisions off of short results and not +ev long term value. run the 83 hand vs 4-5 all is, based on your preflop equity, over 1000+ sample size, and you'll see it's a long term losing play, even though it'll win a small percentage of the time.

Offcourse! Because I am a little fish.

ToNy70929 · Aug 6, 2023

I have repeatedly noticed this at Pokerstars and have come across such cases myself many times. I think the random number generator at PokerStars is initially set up so that tournaments do not drag out in time, and therefore there is a high probability that a large stack will knock a small one out of the game

Silversurfer99 · Aug 6, 2023

countless times

Falai_san · Aug 6, 2023

When you have a lot of chips, the game becomes more fluid and the probability of entering paid positions increases.

john_entony · Aug 6, 2023

ToNy70929 said:
I have repeatedly noticed this at Pokerstars and have come across such cases myself many times. I think the random number generator at PokerStars is initially set up so that tournaments do not drag out in time, and therefore there is a high probability that a large stack will knock a small one out of the game

Exactly! That's exactly what I created the topic about! A lot of people didn't get the point initially... but exactly what you wrote is exactly what I think! And I see it every day when 3-4 people come in, go all-in, and the chip leader calls with outright garbage and he gets a straight, a flush with 1 card, or a trips. Thank you that at least someone else (besides me) sees this kind of injustice.

milka1605 · Aug 6, 2023

This is because a player with a large stack has the opportunity to risk their chips without losing their stack superiority. You probably noticed when you discarded your cards, your winning combination appeared on the table and you regretted the cards thrown away. And you threw away your cards because you can't afford to risk your chips with a small stack.

Luvepoker · Aug 6, 2023

Have heard this theory and no it is not true. My friend on this forum went over and over this several years ago. He was totally convinced it was true. I then asked him why I win so often as a smaller stack. We looked over my hand history's and he was a bit surprises I was rarely a big stack. This was Alao over multiple sites.

As for the junk they have, yes, they can call with trash. AA vs 72 still loses 12% of the time in this worst-case scenario. AKs vs 72o will lose 31% of the time.

airxlns · Aug 6, 2023

We've all seen situations where the chip leader opens up and plays a lot of hands... One thing is certain : he will remain in the tournament even if he gets called and loses the hand .. The rest is just poetry...and variance.

john_entony · Aug 6, 2023

Luvepoker said:
Have heard this theory and no it is not true. My friend on this forum went over and over this several years ago. He was totally convinced it was true. I then asked him why I win so often as a smaller stack. We looked over my hand history's and he was a bit surprises I was rarely a big stack. This was Alao over multiple sites.

As for the junk they have, yes, they can call with trash. AA vs 72 still loses 12% of the time in this worst-case scenario. AKs vs 72o will lose 31% of the time.

I, too, really hope this is just a theory. It's just that when I go in late in the registration process and I get a strong hand - I'm pretty sure I'm going to lose when I play against a bigger stack. That's how it turns out that one-on-one I win very rarely before seeing the flop. Moreover, I play with a stronger hand (but I have less chips) and.... I lose. About 8 out of 10 hands. I tried to request statistics from PokerStars and analyze the % (at least for 1000 hands), but the support service did not provide me with these statistics. They don't keep statistics for freerolls.

ph_il · Aug 6, 2023

john_entony said:
Offcourse! Because I am a little fish.

you're only a fish if you purposely continue to make -ev decisions.

john_entony · Aug 6, 2023

ph_il said:
you're only a fish if you purposely continue to make -ev decisions.

Thanks for the compliment!

Argonaut · Aug 6, 2023

They say size doesn't matter, but I don't know who they are...

Luca Santos · Aug 6, 2023

Hello!
Do a push/fold range study and don't worry about it anymore. The rest will be pure variance.

Bigger stack matter?

john_entony

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ninocabral

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MikeCarasone

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PupsikCat

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ginwilly

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pentazepam

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juan1579

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john_entony

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ph_il

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Vladqt

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john_entony

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john_entony

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