How many all ins pre flop make AK a poor starting hand.

NotADonk · Jan 19, 2023

Hi. My theory is that if the entire table, or almost all the table, goes all in, then AK is a poor hand as the villains likely hold A's and K's so AK is less likely to hit.

But what I can't decide is exactly how many all ins pre flop make AK a fold. What do you think ?

kitchy65 · Jan 19, 2023

NotADonk said:
Hi. My theory is that if the entire table, or almost all the table, goes all in, then AK is a poor hand as the villains likely hold A's and K's so AK is less likely to hit.

But what I can't decide is exactly how many all ins pre flop make AK a fold. What do you think ?

AK is a drawing hand...it needs help.

By the time you get the third shove...you can be sure they're pocket pairs, AA,KK QQ,88 etc.

I would never go all in with AK if there were 3 others that had shipped.

mtmigmike · Jan 20, 2023

In poker, it often doesn't matter what card is in your hand, if everyone goes all-in, you can win with a pair of deuces in your hand.

wavetune · Jan 20, 2023

I almost never fold A K, IT's A GOOD HAND that hits the flop, if I'm not mistaken, in 30% of cases, that is, all sorts of draws, a pair, two pairs appear

kitchy65 · Jan 20, 2023

mtmigmike said:
In poker, it often doesn't matter what card is in your hand, if everyone goes all-in, you can win with a pair of deuces in your hand.

If you enter a multiway pot with 22....chances are you are going to win less than 1 in 10 hands.

Not a profitable play

jordanbillie · Jan 20, 2023

All allins are not created equally.

It depends more on the action than the total number of allins, but I would be tempted to fold if there was a ton of action and I'd be KOd if I lost.

TheDealer · Jan 20, 2023

In the freerolls that I play, I just saw AK and I go all in hahaha

kitchy65 · Jan 20, 2023

jordanbillie said:
All allins are not created equally.

It depends more on the action than the total number of allins, but I would be tempted to fold if there was a ton of action and I'd be KOd if I lost.

Doesn't really though, does it?

If 5 or 6 players are all in and you have AK....your equity falls below 5%

ghitocarcia · Jan 20, 2023

It's difficult to retire with that hand, but almost 95 percent of the time I end up with the chips I have as long as it's 1 against 1, that's at low limits, but I've seen that good players know how to retire at high limits when they put the fourth.

kitchy65 · Jan 20, 2023

ghitocarcia said:
It's difficult to retire with that hand, but almost 95 percent of the time I end up with the chips I have as long as it's 1 against 1, that's at low limits, but I've seen that good players know how to retire at high limits when they put the fourth.

If there are already 3 or more shoves ahead of you and you hold AK...it's very easy to muck it.

Dailon Arroyo Blandon · Jan 20, 2023

Well... in my personal case I don't get obsessed with going all-in every time I have AK in hand... I only do it if the conditions are right from my strategy...

jordanbillie · Jan 20, 2023

kitchy65 said:
Doesn't really though, does it?

If 5 or 6 players are all in and you have AK....your equity falls below 5%

You're right. Generally speaking I'd fold that spot instantly (assuming the stack sizes were relevant).

Kinalha · Jan 20, 2023

kitchy65 said:
Doesn't really though, does it?

If 5 or 6 players are all in and you have AK....your equity falls below 5%

First, what tournament is that when 5,6 players go all in? Probably a small buy in, and is this case for have 2 options.
First: if is a bounty mtt, i just close my eyes and make the call.
Second: if don't is a bounty tournament, see the blinds, and who have the most chips in this absurd hand, if you have can win against some player with good stake, maybe do a call. Obvious, this is a RNG situation, with alot of another things to check...

JOAOSEVERINO11 · Jan 20, 2023

NotADonk said:
Hi. My theory is that if the entire table, or almost all the table, goes all in, then AK is a poor hand as the villains likely hold A's and K's so AK is less likely to hit.

But what I can't decide is exactly how many all ins pre flop make AK a fold. What do you think ?

I think that AK would only fold pre flop if it's Final table, and there are players with stakes lower than mine, due to the ICM/Payment jump, it also depends on the field and how the action reached me.

kitchy65 · Jan 20, 2023

jordanbillie said:
You're right. Generally speaking I'd fold that spot instantly (assuming the stack sizes were relevant).

Yes, but you've played with this group longer than I have, and know the regs that shove any ace.

So, there you were isolating UTG from MP (who you know only shoves with pocket pairs)
Only to be frustrated by the LJ, Btn, and both the blinds totally ignoring your 3-bet, and shoving behind you.

Saying bye bye to AK without seeing a flop always hurts... especially so when the showdown is 77,44, A6o, J4c and K3d

kitchy65 · Jan 20, 2023

Kinalha said:
First, what tournament is that when 5,6 players go all in? Probably a small buy in, and is this case for have 2 options.
First: if is a bounty mtt, i just close my eyes and make the call.
Second: if don't is a bounty tournament, see the blinds, and who have the most chips in this absurd hand, if you have can win against some player with good stake, maybe do a call. Obvious, this is a RNG situation, with alot of another things to check...

It's only worth gambling if suited...it's generally crushed most of the time multiway.

I had thought this was everyone's experience?

Baldy86 · Jan 20, 2023

against AA and KK you are a at a huge disadvantage of course

against any pocket pair below KK you are a small dog ...around 58 - 42 . almost 50 50 . when your AK is suited then it is closer at around 55 - 45 so you are still a small dog but almost coinflip

and any other hand especially AQ , AJ etc. you dominate

and suited connectors like 8-7s are better against AK than hands like AQ , AJ is of course . but you also dominate them preflop

TeUnit · Jan 20, 2023

This depends, if its the double or nothing format AK would be horrible to get it in with multiple players, but if its a winner take all format the AK would be fine. To answer this you need to look at the ICM of the specific hand.

Leomil · Jan 20, 2023

It depends of the situation, of course. I dont know accurately the tecnician stuff, but going all in with AK on early tournament pre flop with 500 BBs its definitively not a good choice, mainly folding for sure. On the other hand, AK late tournament with 15 BBs would always be shove, regardless of the table pre flop, you see? As for cash games, it depends of the players you are with

Academico · Jan 20, 2023

It depends on the moment of the tournament and the reading I do of the opponents I'm facing, it also depends if it's a tournament with or without a bounty, if it's with a bounty I may do it more frequently.

wolfik1950 · Jan 20, 2023

in my opinion, the rank of the tournament you participate in is important,,,in serious tournaments, no one with A or K in hand will go all-in

mssmotilda · Jan 20, 2023

mtmigmike said:
In poker, it often doesn't matter what card is in your hand, if everyone goes all-in, you can win with a pair of deuces in your hand.

If everyone goes all-in, then 72 will have almost as much equity as AK. When I heard about it, I didn't believe it at first.

recerveau · Jan 20, 2023

I only go all-in with AK in the opening hand if I'm drunk.

SL-247 · Jan 21, 2023

With AK, you can only go all-in against a player with a small stack or if you have a small stack.

sincos · Jan 21, 2023

AK is a big liar. This hand can knock out opponents. AK looks good preflop.

How many all ins pre flop make AK a poor starting hand.

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