*** January's Juxtaposed Pokahz Chat ***

Jagsti

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  • #2,376
jewboy07 said:
so to be honest ive stopped getting paid off as much as i would like with strong hands at 25nl over the past about 5k hands or so (small sample i guess)

so im thinking about switching to playing 25nl 6 max....any tips?

for the few (about 500) hands i have of me at that stake my stats are

vpip: 15
pfr: 13
att to steal: 31
c-bet: 84
3-bet: 4
aggression factor:4.5

anything need adjusting?

Probably loosen up a bit. Not sure how effective it will be to losen up a bit at 25nl, but TAG stats at 100nl+ are like 20/18, 22/20 say. 15/13 is bordering on nitty. 3bet could also be higher, say like 8%, but again not sure how effective that is at 25nl.
 
c9h13no3

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  • #2,377
jewboy07 said:
so to be honest ive stopped getting paid off as much as i would like with strong hands at 25nl over the past about 5k hands or so (small sample i guess)

so im thinking about switching to playing 25nl 6 max....any tips?

for the few (about 500) hands i have of me at that stake my stats are

vpip: 15
pfr: 13
att to steal: 31
c-bet: 84
3-bet: 4
aggression factor:4.5

anything need adjusting?
Stop being so nitty. :D
 
zachvac

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  • #2,378
jewboy07 said:
so to be honest ive stopped getting paid off as much as i would like with strong hands at 25nl over the past about 5k hands or so (small sample i guess)
If this is not just in your head, you can now bluff more.

jewboy07 said:
so im thinking about switching to playing 25nl 6 max....any tips?
Maybe you want to play 6max, but I don't see the connection between the last sentence and this one.

jewboy07 said:
for the few (about 500) hands i have of me at that stake my stats are

vpip: 15
pfr: 13
att to steal: 31
c-bet: 84
3-bet: 4
aggression factor:4.5

anything need adjusting?

These are super-solid imo, but obviously there's more to basic stats in how you're playing. It's been mentioned before but you can play 15/13 and be a spewtard or 20/5 and be a solid reg. cbet may be a bit high, but if your problem is not getting paid off and the cbets are succeeding I see no problem with it. If you're not getting paid enough you should switch your focus from winning big pots and instead focus on just winning a bunch of pots by basically just using position.
 
S93

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  • #2,379
c9h13no3 said:
Stop being so nitty. :D
lol he is obvs. a very LAGGY player(atleast compared to my old 6max stats:eek: )

p.s
Im usualy running 20/16 now at 6max,mostly just by raising thouse damm limpers you where hammering into my head :)
 
jewboy07

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  • #2,380
at Zach, the connection is that there is more action and stacking off a little bit lighter which should mean more getting paid off

also i think i just need a change of scenery (and 6 max is way more fun anyway)

as to the semi nitty stats, i have already realized ill need to loosen up and def 3-bet lighter once i move up but i feel like these are ok for those stakes, ive also started raising most pocket pairs from most all positions so that will make me a lil less tight

what im worried about is kinda over-adjusting, i mean i've watched most of Chuckt's and BW's videos on 6 max and im kinda afraid of lossening up 2 much and spewing by 3 beting/stealing too often

also about winning many small pots thats what i basically have going on right now, ive cut out all the calling oop with stuff like AJ and weak pairs and am much more positionally aware

sometimes though i feel like all my poker knowledge would serve me great at $50nl plus but isn't so aplicable at my current level
 
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ChuckTs

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  • #2,381
I'll be coming out with some a new(/some new) video(s) soon. Haven't done them in a while, and can't do them for various reasons until I get good rakeback on a good euro site. Maybe I'll be able to help you and some of the other guys making the move to 6max.
 
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  • #2,382
ChuckTs said:
I'll be coming out with some a new(/some new) video(s) soon. Haven't done them in a while, and can't do them for various reasons until I get good rakeback on a good euro site. Maybe I'll be able to help you and some of the other guys making the move to 6max.

You moving off of PS to a euro site????
 
zachvac

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  • #2,383
jewboy07 said:
at Zach, the connection is that there is more action and stacking off a little bit lighter which should mean more getting paid off
probably true but it also means you're going to be blown off your hands much more and simply cbetting so much will not be as effective. Also remember that they stack off light just because you're bluffing a ton. Like I said, a good way to not only make money if they don't adjust and get hands paid off if they do is to just bluff a lot more. Is there a particular line they don't pay you off hardly at all when you have a hand? Take that line as a bluff more often.

jewboy07 said:
also i think i just need a change of scenery (and 6 max is way more fun anyway)
And that's fine, I still think people make a way bigger deal of the difference between 6max and FR anyway. The other thing is that at the 6max micros there is still a lot of weak/passive stuff going on.

jewboy07 said:
as to the semi nitty stats, i have already realized ill need to loosen up and def 3-bet lighter once i move up but i feel like these are ok for those stakes, ive also started raising most pocket pairs from most all positions so that will make me a lil less tight
15/13 is not nitty at all. In fact I'd class you on the laggier side at FR, at least among regs. But if you are trying to open up more I would advise more raising a huge range from button/CO than opening pairs from EP. I just think opening hands like 22-66 from UTG or UTG+1 in FR is not very smart unless you have to do it to balance your range. Personally I haven't seen basically anyone trying to exploit me and I basically raise AK/99+ UTG and UTG+1. Sure anyone good with hand ranges is going to be able to read my hand insanely well, but mostly I'm just worried about getting money in preflop with a pretty premium hand and if someone starts playing back a lot I can obviously just start stacking AA/KK against them even if they just flat preflop. I just think raising low pairs is not going to be very profitable in EP and I'm assuming it's not needed for range-balancing so I don't think raising those just to help stats is a very smart move. Of course if you're winning with them just keep doing what you're doing. I just know from my database in the past it has not been a very profitable move for me and I know most people I've talked to have said the same.
jewboy07 said:
what im worried about is kinda over-adjusting, i mean i've watched most of Chuckt's and BW's videos on 6 max and im kinda afraid of lossening up 2 much and spewing by 3 beting/stealing too often
Honestly I think that has more to do with stakes. I've watched some high-stakes FR videos and seen some 1knl-5knl hands where for example someone calls off 77 to a preflop shove because they think they're ahead of villain's shoving range (or at least getting odds to call against it). I still think the difference is over-exaggerated and that it just depends on the opponents. At 25-50nl the 6max players are much more passive than 200nl+.

jewboy07 said:
also about winning many small pots thats what i basically have going on right now, ive cut out all the calling oop with stuff like AJ and weak pairs and am much more positionally aware
Nice, yeah I really think that any calls oop should be the exception rather than the rule.
jewboy07 said:
sometimes though i feel like all my poker knowledge would serve me great at $50nl plus but isn't so aplicable at my current level

That's good because hopefully you do make it there and when you do you will be ready to own it :).
 
blankoblanco

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  • #2,384
deltafrost, i haven't booked you for the bet yet cause i wanted to make sure you know the terms. it's 50k hands, not 40k, february 1st-28th at 200NL on ftp, and i have to have a winning rate. let me know if your 50 is down on that or not, <3
 
ChuckTs

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  • #2,385
No bw, just for video purposes.
 
jewboy07

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  • #2,386
zachvac said:
15/13 is not nitty at all. In fact I'd class you on the laggier side at FR, at least among regs. But if you are trying to open up more I would advise more raising a huge range from button/CO than opening pairs from EP. I just think opening hands like 22-66 from UTG or UTG+1 in FR is not very smart unless you have to do it to balance your range. Personally I haven't seen basically anyone trying to exploit me and I basically raise AK/99+ UTG and UTG+1. Sure anyone good with hand ranges is going to be able to read my hand insanely well, but mostly I'm just worried about getting money in preflop with a pretty premium hand and if someone starts playing back a lot I can obviously just start stacking AA/KK against them even if they just flat preflop. I just think raising low pairs is not going to be very profitable in EP and I'm assuming it's not needed for range-balancing so I don't think raising those just to help stats is a very smart move. Of course if you're winning with them just keep doing what you're doing. I just know from my database in the past it has not been a very profitable move for me and I know most people I've talked to have said the same.


That's good because hopefully you do make it there and when you do you will be ready to own it :).

actually the stats i posted were from 6-max, as for FR your right about not opening small pairs in EP i dont do that unless a certain situation comes up that i can feel it would benefit me to do so

thanks for all the advice Zach
 
ChuckTs

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  • #2,387
Yeah that's extremely nitty for 6max. I'd say your average tag player is somewhere between 22/19 and 19/16 or so.

Steal WAY more on the button, that'll open up your pfr and vpip, and give you an idea of what ranges you can open on the CO or hijack. I take it your cbet % is so high because you raise such a tight range that you're generally value betting rather than bluffing on the flop, but regardless that's extremely high, and you should be somewhere around %70.

3bet more, namely in position, and namely against people with %75+ fold to 3bet stats. Any lower than that and try to stick to value hands (ie hands you're willing to stack with should your opponent 4bet).
 
jewboy07

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  • #2,388
ChuckTs said:
Yeah that's extremely nitty for 6max. I'd say your average tag player is somewhere between 22/19 and 19/16 or so.

Steal WAY more on the button, that'll open up your pfr and vpip, and give you an idea of what ranges you can open on the CO or hijack. I take it your cbet % is so high because you raise such a tight range that you're generally value betting rather than bluffing on the flop, but regardless that's extremely high, and you should be somewhere around %70.

3bet more, namely in position, and namely against people with %75+ fold to 3bet stats. Any lower than that and try to stick to value hands (ie hands you're willing to stack with should your opponent 4bet).

about the 3 betting (which i only usually do if someone's steal is up around or over 40%) how large of a sample size should i use as enough of a sample to see what a players true call 3-bet% is?

also about 3 betting im generally 3 betting light with hands like 98s or other suited connectors or medium pairs like 99 or 1010 my reasoning being is that if my 3-bet is called i'll be in decent shape and if i connect hard with the flop i'll win a stack...are their any other hands i can add to my 3-bet range other then those and standard 3-betting hands like QQ+ and AK?
 
ChuckTs

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  • #2,389
A good thing my coach taught me is that for 3betting, hand ranges are less important than how your opponent deals with 3bets.

If I have someone who steals a wide range but folds really often to 3bets (again, %75+), then what I hold in my hand doesn't matter. The play is immediately profitable on it's own. I've 3bet trash like J3 and 38 countless times. When your opponent starts to adjust (that's up to you to decide when) is when you should start narrowing your range to value hands only.

Really what hands you 3bet depends on your opponent. If you've got someone who folds to 3bets and folds to cbets in 3bet pots really well, then you want to raise ATC. If you've got someone who's extremely laggy, you might want to 3bet a hand like QJs and stack any flopped top pair or draw.

Sample size...I'd say a few hundred hands is good enough. Prolly 100 hands will give you a general idea of how they play.
 
Deltafrost

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  • #2,390
combuboom said:
deltafrost, i haven't booked you for the bet yet cause i wanted to make sure you know the terms. it's 50k hands, not 40k, february 1st-28th at 200NL on ftp, and i have to have a winning rate. let me know if your 50 is down on that or not, <3

yup im down, sorry had late classes tonight.

brag:got out of class an hour early!
beat: cuz of an icestorm moving in thats likely to shut down the city
 
jewboy07

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  • #2,391
ChuckTs said:
A good thing my coach taught me is that for 3betting, hand ranges are less important than how your opponent deals with 3bets.

If I have someone who steals a wide range but folds really often to 3bets (again, %75+), then what I hold in my hand doesn't matter. The play is immediately profitable on it's own. I've 3bet trash like J3 and 38 countless times. When your opponent starts to adjust (that's up to you to decide when) is when you should start narrowing your range to value hands only.

Really what hands you 3bet depends on your opponent. If you've got someone who folds to 3bets and folds to cbets in 3bet pots really well, then you want to raise ATC. If you've got someone who's extremely laggy, you might want to 3bet a hand like QJs and stack any flopped top pair or draw.

Sample size...I'd say a few hundred hands is good enough. Prolly 100 hands will give you a general idea of how they play.

that makes sense i guess its like stealing ATC against certain players because its immediately profitable and against people who fold to a C-bet a high percentage of the time is adds even more value to it as well helps when you actually hit a hand

thanks Chuck
 
ChuckTs

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  • #2,392
Exactly, perfect analogy. Just don't take it too far OOP or against someone who's a winner because he'll usually adjust. Also make sure you don't try to win the pot every time you get called either. Give up often when called by those players I was talking about.
 
kleitches

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  • #2,393
combuboom said:
how am i not top 5 in # of posts? i post so much, how do you guys do it

How do you find out the top posters? TELL ME NOW.
 
Dwilius

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  • #2,394
Bottom of the main page, there's a top 5 list for several categories. Belgo has gone berserker...I blame this thread. :D
 
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vanquish

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  • #2,395
i just ate a fish
 
Tygran

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  • #2,396
vanquish said:
i just ate a fish

^^ And this is how you make top 5 posters :D

/love your posts btw
 
KingCurtis

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  • #2,397
Pretty awesome day for me at 10nl cant complain about +8 BI days :D

Picture2-18.png
 
blankoblanco

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  • #2,398
shamwow!
 
Lemlywinks

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  • #2,399
damn KC, that's a great last 250 hands or so
 
Monoxide

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  • #2,400
switch0723 said:
dude, forget about vip levels, they are overrated imo, im not even going to make silver star this month coz i rock but do i care? hell no since im currently averaging just shy of 100 bucks a day just by playing good poker and only playing when i can properly concentrate, so only average about 1 and a half hours of solid playing time a day. Due to that i have an roi > 20% and that feels a hell of a lot better than hitting silverstar and getting 1.5x fpps by playing loads of barely winning poker.

thinly veiled brag across small sample ldo

hehe, yes thats good win rate, hmmm but you only play HU dont you? you dont get barely any vpp in those.... :eek: ahh im so high and tired and high sleep now bb zzzzz
 
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