* January's Juxtaposed Pokahz Chat *

zachvac · Jan 26, 2009

Monoxide said:
Question, if I wanted to get SN really quick but lack the funds to fullstack 1/2... could I 12-table shortstack 1/2 and probably render the same fast VPP gain, with less risk?

Its $480 to SS 1/2 and $2400 to buyin full, so yeah.... would this get me SN uber fast?

Then I wanna go back to 100nl and play with full BI and nice fpp gain.

shortstacking definitely has higher variance and any edge you have is tiny. That said to make sn you're going to have to play ~250k hands at 1/2 FR whether it's shortstacking or fullstacking.

switch0723 · Jan 26, 2009

well i fixed the sound, but brokeded the emulator, i give up, going to drown my sorrows by earning the 150 ill owe the freak on a leash in the next hour

Jagsti · Jan 26, 2009

LMFAO at Combu giving it the hard sell 'man I'm so lazy!'.... 'Have i told you guys how lazy I am!'.... LOLOL

Anyways, book me down for the same bet as Rex n Switch. $100 to win $50 yeah

And BTW combu, this is easy money dude, you should hit this in like 2 weeks I reckon!

Deltafrost · Jan 26, 2009

so the official prop for combu is 40k hands at 2:1 with + winrate right?

if so ill take 50. Give ya even more inspiration

blankoblanco · Jan 26, 2009

Jagsti said:
LMFAO at Combu giving it the hard sell 'man I'm so lazy!'.... 'Have i told you guys how lazy I am!'.... LOLOL

Anyways, book me down for the same bet as Rex n Switch. $100 to win $50 yeah

And BTW combu, this is easy money dude, you should hit this in like 2 weeks I reckon!

haha, i swear i'm just trying to portray the scenario accurately. if i was some supergrinder like you or zach, it obv would be a tooootally different bet. i look at it as buying motivation

booked jagsti, thx

. i hope you'll enjoy your $50

Deltafrost said:
so the official prop for combu is 40k hands at 2:1 with + winrate right?

if so ill take 50. Give ya even more inspiration

50k hands for the month of february at 200NL full ring on ftp. and yes with a positive win rate

so you'd be putting up $50 to my $25, sound good?

Monoxide · Jan 26, 2009

zachvac said:
shortstacking definitely has higher variance and any edge you have is tiny. That said to make sn you're going to have to play ~250k hands at 1/2 FR whether it's shortstacking or fullstacking.

Even if im playing like a nitty SS, with only $480 on the tables, I could potentially encounter greater swings/losses then buying in for $2400?

Are you basically not recommending this strat for vpp gain? If you arn't, then I will just buyin full at 100nl and play that... it will just take way longer to get SN.

Irexes · Jan 26, 2009

Deltafrost said:
so the official prop for combu is 40k hands at 2:1 with + winrate right?

if so ill take 50. Give ya even more inspiration

It's 50k hands. Though I'm banking on the positiv winrate. Muahahahahaha

switch0723 · Jan 26, 2009

I think im just going to burn the $75, actually going to go to Florida and burn it in front of you, then laff, then leave

ChuckTs · Jan 26, 2009

You're a terrible salesman combu. Yet I feel somehow coerced into this thing.

I'll put down a bill. $100.

blankoblanco · Jan 26, 2009

booked chuck, cheers

the good thing is if i fail this miserably, at least you guys will know for sure that i wasn't angling or anything

vanquish · Jan 26, 2009

Monoxide said:
Even if im playing like a nitty SS, with only $480 on the tables, I could potentially encounter greater swings/losses then buying in for $2400?

Are you basically not recommending this strat for vpp gain? If you arn't, then I will just buyin full at 100nl and play that... it will just take way longer to get SN.

ur going to lose more $ shortstacking (and not playing fullstacked 100nl as an opportunity cost) than you will in your FPP gain from supernova

Monoxide · Jan 26, 2009

vanquish said:
ur going to lose more $ shortstacking (and not playing fullstacked 100nl as an opportunity cost) than you will in your FPP gain from supernova

Ok then forget shortstacking, I just thought it may be a viable option because I keep seeing so damn many of them per table @ 100-200nl.

switch0723 · Jan 26, 2009

dude, forget about vip levels, they are overrated imo, im not even going to make silver star this month coz i rock but do i care? hell no since im currently averaging just shy of 100 bucks a day just by playing good poker and only playing when i can properly concentrate, so only average about 1 and a half hours of solid playing time a day. Due to that i have an roi > 20% and that feels a hell of a lot better than hitting silverstar and getting 1.5x fpps by playing loads of barely winning poker.

thinly veiled brag across small sample ldo

ChuckTs · Jan 26, 2009

If you're playing stars you only need to concern yourself with SN or SNE if possible. Otherwise it's basically not worth it if you're changing your game significantly to put a dent in your winrate.

Just try to improve as best you can every session.

blankoblanco · Jan 26, 2009

switch, why are you so awesome?

zachvac · Jan 26, 2009

Monoxide said:
Even if im playing like a nitty SS, with only $480 on the tables, I could potentially encounter greater swings/losses then buying in for $2400?

Are you basically not recommending this strat for vpp gain? If you arn't, then I will just buyin full at 100nl and play that... it will just take way longer to get SN.

umm the nittier the swingier actually. Your edge when you shortstack comes from re-steals over wide opens. So if you're just a nit you'll probably first off lose money if you haven't learned the strategy properly (especially at 200nl where after the first coule thousand hands the regs will all pretty much know what ranges you're shoving and stuff) and second of all even if you have a slight edge it's going to be extremely marginal. Similarly you'll end up getting into a lot of flips which obviously is super +variance (and even when you don't flip you're essentially flipping range vs. range so like you having JJ and them having QQ is essentially a coin flip since you get it in with QQ and they do with JJ). So yeah, basically tiny winrate and high variance equals unbelievable downswings and life sucks. Plus the benefits of supernova aren't that amazing and even 24-tabling it'd take something like 150-200 hours. Just play 100nl and actually play poker.

zachvac · Jan 26, 2009

Monoxide said:
Ok then forget shortstacking, I just thought it may be a viable option because I keep seeing so damn many of them per table @ 100-200nl.

Look them up on tableratings sometime. You'll likely be surprised. And those are the shortstack pros.

switch0723 · Jan 26, 2009

there's only 1 really good shortstacker i know off of the top of my head, imsakxxxxidd or something

switch0723 · Jan 26, 2009

I just worked out that im currently winning at a pretty bad ass rate, ~$60 an hour, thats pretty sick imo. Purely since working that out, I now have the urge to actually play a shitload, so this weekend (friday night - sunday night) going to set the goal of playing 17 hours to ship a tasty 1k in Ev-ness

pantin007 · Jan 26, 2009

switch0723 said:
there's only 1 really good shortstacker i know off of the top of my head, imsakxxxxidd or something

QFT, he is a beast imo

ChuckTs · Jan 26, 2009

switch0723 said:
there's only 1 really good shortstacker i know off of the top of my head, imsakxxxxidd or something

x_QUIX***TAR_x minus the asterisks. Always feel like I own him, yet he's one of the winningest players against me and he almost always tops monthly profit lists.

blankoblanco · Jan 26, 2009

some dick of a shortstacker on PS earlier spaz-shoved T3s on my CO open when i'd been very tight, i had AKo and snapped, i flop TPTK but he rivers two pair. losing to shortstackers almost tilts me more than losing to full stacks. i want to strangle them. it was a reg too, with reasonable stats

ChuckTs · Jan 26, 2009

It always makes me happy because then they leave the table

And then I say "run along little one".

jewboy07 · Jan 26, 2009

so to be honest ive stopped getting paid off as much as i would like with strong hands at 25nl over the past about 5k hands or so (small sample i guess)

so im thinking about switching to playing 25nl 6 max....any tips?

for the few (about 500) hands i have of me at that stake my stats are

vpip: 15
pfr: 13
att to steal: 31
c-bet: 84
3-bet: 4
aggression factor:4.5

anything need adjusting?

switch0723 · Jan 26, 2009

The problem with shortstacking is that its even more mind numingly boring than normal full ring

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